If we have to vote this year or the next, women who will not vote Labour due to the GRA raise your hand

[TerraNovaTwo]

As above

I would genuinely like to hear your workings out. I’d love to be able to believe something optimistic on this subject.

Just to respond to this - I tend to think common sense will prevail. Everyone knows that it is females that give birth to babies, menstruate, etc, etc. That's not going to change any time soon. The Gender Recognition Act explicitly has single sex exclusions. All these consultations on the GRA have not resulted in that going away. As it stands, woman only refuges etc are safe.

Yes, there is some confusion about some transwomen winning prizes meant for women, etc, etc.

But I just don't see that sex-based rights are going anywhere.

Oh I see. You're just complacent. Cool.

@DottyDoge Are you familiar with 'Chestertons Fence'? You are responsible for showing that self ID is safe before making the changes. Self ID is already having a negative effect on women's rights and safety, and on the collection of data including criminal data. If you arent aware of those negative effects you need to do more research.
wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Chesterton%27s_Fence

Its not up to women to prove why we need legal terms or equality laws; we already did that to get them in the first place and we dont have to keep justifying the need.

🤘

Self ID is a Conservative proposal.

I would have changed my vote to Labour this time round if it were not for the GRA thing so yeah, they’ve lost out on my vote.

@DottyDoge

Imaginary???? Has the poster quoted had their head under a rock for the last decade. This is the biggest threat to women's rights, safety and representation for a hundred years and the quoted poster is saying it's "imaginary". You're blind.

Or, I just see things differently and I perceive your point of view as hyperbolic. I get the rhetorical argument (if anyone can say they're a woman, than being a woman becomes meaningless), but I just don't think things will turn out the way you think. I don't see that (in the UK) women's rights are going to be curtailed in any signficant way as a result of trans-rights, I just don't see it happening.

But they already have been affected - there are males in women's prisons in the UK.

Look at places like Canada. When these things come into law, they begin to have effects on the system. And it will be damn difficult to have them removed.

@theinebriati

I’m not proposing self ID

Me. 🤚

'If you can't respect my sex, don't expect my X.'

Dotty Labour have said they support Self ID. In fact many organisations already allow Self ID. The head of a Rape Centre self identifies as a woman.

'If you can't respect my sex, don't expect my X.'

Very cute but do you think the Tories respect your sex? Boris Johnson? Dominic Raab?

Fucking great, Tories forever it is then. That'll be cracking for women.

[quote DottyDoge]@theinebriati

I’m not proposing self ID[/quote]
All the indications are that Labour will pursue it, just like the SNP and other governments in western countries.

The thing is, it would be really easy for Labour to get out of this mess. They could say clearly that they won't, and that they will protect women's spaces in places like prions, sports, that they will emphasize things like evidence based medicine, etc.

If they will do those things, you have to ask, why are they not saying so? There have lost so many voters over these things and over identity politics generally.

Instead they tell people they are bigots and they don't want their votes.

If they actually want to beat the Tories, they need to give up policies that people won't vote for. Or they will be a marginal party permanently. They are making a choice that they prefer to maintain their unpopular policy positions and see the Tories remain in power.

Not voting for any woke nutters who don’t know that a man can’t become a woman.
I’d vote Tory because our local MP is very good.

I certainly wouldn't vote for a party that hates women.

I won’t it’s too important to me, and thinking for dd

I'm a socialist but I won't vote Labour. I just spoil my ballot paper.

Me. Floating voter and no idea who to vote for.

No way. Lost my vote for this utter contemptible shit.

How can people claim to vote Conservative because of this issue?

Self ID is a Tory proposal.
They could make it disappear in the morning if they want to.
They haven't.
The Self ID shitshow is the Conservative Party's fault.

They must be pissing themselves laughing at threads like these.

I'm a woman and will be voting for Labour so YABU.

@madlam
Fucking great, Tories forever it is then. That'll be cracking for women.
Exactly! How the fuck people think Conservatives are better for women is beyond me.

Who has said they will vote Tory?

✋

Exactly @SantaClawsServiette

Labour could easily make this go away by saying that they will ensure that the equality act is properly enforced and by not you know blathering nonsense like TWAW and calling women who disagree with that bigots

It’s not hard to not do that but Instead they plough on, why is that?