To think this couple's attitude has no place in modern society?

[Georama]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10419543/Christian-couple-ban-gay-man-partner-buying-dream-650-000-sexuality.html

A church-going wife who banned a gay man and his ITV producer partner from buying her £650,000 Surrey home has hit back in the row and insisted they are just sticking to their beliefs.

Luke Whitehouse and Lachlan Mantell were stunned when they were told that they could not buy the three-bedroom home because the Christian owners didn't want to sell to 'two men in a partnership.'

Honestly, they should be ashamed of that text. I hope no estate agent will work with them ever again.

Because covid has increased wfh etc we've seen a lot of houses with the owners present.

Sometimes there is a clear change in their faces when they realise its a same sex couple. One old lady was very briskly encouraged to leave the house by the estate agent when she started to make comments towards us (nothing bad but I think the estate agent could see it deteriorating), we've also had People making a weird point about second bedrooms and the ability to sleep separately

We had one viewing where the owner was a bit brisk towards us, our offer was then rejected as they wanted it to be a "family home", we explained that we were a family etc and the estate agent gave a vague response

I'm 90% sure that it was because we were gay, but how can you prove it unless they are stupidly honest like this couple?

You can use religion to justify all kinds of horrific things, there has to be a line drawn somewhere when you expressing your “religious freedoms” causes harm and distress to other people. Refusing to sell something to a couple whose relationship has zero effect on you what so ever and where there is nothing in your religion which prevents you from doing so, then on top of that sending them references to bible passages telling them they are shameful depraved sinners with unnatural desires who will burn in hellfire is surely where the line should be drawn?

I’m saddened but not shocked that a significant number of posters on here are defending the couple and are more concerned about the backlash they may face than the gay couple who were actually discriminated against. Your religious beliefs don’t give you a free pass to discriminate against people and send them awful bible passages about how shameful they are and how they will punished in eternal hellfire, when all they wanted to do was view a house you’re trying to sell. There was no need to do that any of that, and it says a lot about you as a person if you hear this story and immediately jump to their defence.

@ConsuelaHammock

Meh ! People can sell their house to whoever they want. I don’t agree with their views but lots of people will agree with them. We cannot police anyone’s own belief system.

I agree with this.

I think people are saying it is the bigotry that is bad - so - should we ban bigotry, surely one man's bigoted comment is another person's truth.

@Isaw3ships

‘ Bitofachinwag

dancingbear most Christians follow guidance in the New Testament, not the Old Testament (Leviticus is).’

Oh I see. So the Bible is the literal Word of God but you can pick and choose the parts that you follow? So gays= Sinful, evil, immoral and fine to discriminate against.
Having sex with a woman close to her period = ignore that. Having to marry and procreate with your dead brother’s wife, skip that bit. God didn’t really mean that.
Owning slaves - yeah, forget that bit but homosexuals not being allowed to marry, or even exist - that IS the word of god…

It's not about" picking and choosing", but I suppose if someone did want to pick and choose that would be up to them. It's not for you to decide.

:07WindInTheWillows7

Bitofachinwag

dancingbear most Christians follow guidance in the New Testament, not the Old Testament (Leviticus is).

Massive over simplification. Christians believe that the God who gave the Isaraelites the Mosaic law in the wilderness is the very same God who came to die on a cross for the people's sins. The whole of the Old Testament points to the New

Yes, massive oversimplification. But the non- simplified version is too long for this thread I think.

‘ It's not about" picking and choosing", but I suppose if someone did want to pick and choose that would be up to them. It's not for you to decide.’

No, and I wouldn’t as that’s discrimination but I can point out that absolute hypocrisy of people who choose to judge others using selective passages from the bible while ignoring anything that may impact on their own lives.
I can also point out that using a work of fiction to impact on the day to day life or civil rights of another person is wrong whichever side you come down in.

Here’s some things ‘Christians’ have told me over the years -
I’ve made a sinful ‘lifestyle choice’ and will be punished for it
Being gay is wrong
Being gay is okay but acting’ on it i.e. having a girlfriend is wrong
Being gay, having a partner is okay but getting married isn’t
I’m not actually married as god says that’s between a man and a woman
I’m threatening actually marriage by. Sing married to a woman
It’s okay that I’m gay and married ( not in the god obvs but by the government) but not that we have children together

You know what I’ve said to Christians about their belief? Their lifestyle choice to go to church, believe the bible, preach and try to convert? Bring their children up to believe in fairy stories?
Fuck all. Because I respect their religious freedoms.

Oh I see. So the Bible is the literal Word of God but you can pick and choose the parts that you follow?

As has been pointed out already, Christians follow the New Testament. The Old Testament is included in the Bible for context.

A lot of posters seem to be confused about why Christians don't follow the Mosaic law (the Jewish laws in the Old Testament given by God to Moses). It's not about 'picking and choosing'. It's because Christ fulfilled the laws. If anyone ks actually interested, this article explains fairly well:

www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-dont-christians-keep-jewish-law/

(Posting because confusion about this seems to be detailing the conversation).

*derailing, not detailing

‘ Oh I see. So the Bible is the literal Word of God but you can pick and choose the parts that you follow?

As has been pointed out already, Christians follow the New Testament. The Old Testament is included in the Bible for context.’

That’s absolute bull. There are many, many Christian faiths ( including mainstream ones) that follow, preach or believe the Old Testament. I’m Catholic and we absolutely were taught to follow
And believe in the creation of the world, Adam and Eve and all the rest of it.
Pretending that the Old Testament suddenly isn’t part of the bible is a smokescreen that many bigots use to get around their homophobia yet many of the passages used to condemn being gay as sinful come from the Old Testament. Not the new

That being said - if you are ignorant enough to be homophobic because of your holy book is that your prerogative- sure.
Can you then take that ignorance and bigotry outside of your church or prayer grp and use it to discriminate against people in the real world ? No, not with our consequences anyway.
Though I’m sure those two are sitting smugly somewhere believing they’ve stood up for their religion and beliefs and showed those queers a thing or two and so t give a flying flute about what anyone thinks.

I think their opinion is wrong (and I am a Christian) but I think they have the right to sell or not sell their house to anyone.
I can think of people I would prefer not to sell our house to.

@Isaw3ships

‘ Oh I see. So the Bible is the literal Word of God but you can pick and choose the parts that you follow?

As has been pointed out already, Christians follow the New Testament. The Old Testament is included in the Bible for context.’

That’s absolute bull. There are many, many Christian faiths ( including mainstream ones) that follow, preach or believe the Old Testament. I’m Catholic and we absolutely were taught to follow
And believe in the creation of the world, Adam and Eve and all the rest of it.
Pretending that the Old Testament suddenly isn’t part of the bible is a smokescreen that many bigots use to get around their homophobia yet many of the passages used to condemn being gay as sinful come from the Old Testament. Not the new

So are you saying that you live by every single rule in the Old Testament, without exception?

No, and I wouldn’t as that’s discrimination but I can point out that absolute hypocrisy of people who choose to judge others using selective passages from the bible while ignoring anything that may impact on their own lives.

I think you're giving the average adherent a bit much credit when it comes to the theological understanding of their own religion, the theological study (and bias) that has gone into interpretations and where adherents in 2021 all fit into that scheme

There are people here saying that "this is not my kind of Christianity" but if you're using the KJV then it literally is.

An interest in theology, how certain positions were arrived at and adherence to a religion are not the same thing unfortunately, particularly IME when it comes to Christians

There may be more modern and accepting ways of translating parts of the Bible but you can be fairly certain that these 2 arseholes have no interest in that at all

I think what a lot of people don't get or are refusing to see is that expressing prejudice through religion is just one framework through which we as gay people find ourselves on the receiving end of homophobia. (Which, when you strip everything else away, is basically fear and weak-mindedness, in my opinion.)

It comes in many forms. Religion 'it's against God's will, the Bible forbids it', etc. Medical 'gay people spread HIV'. Statistical 'well there's only a tiny percentage of you, you don't matter'. Societal 'I don't want my children exposed to that'. And so on it goes.

Some people will find whatever convenient framework that works for them to justify it, but the end result is the same: alienation, prejudice, rejection, hatred and sometimes violence.

That's why this situation is shit. Because Luke and Lachlan have probably experienced bits of shit chucked at them like this their whole lives, but with varying justifications.

@Isaw3ships

‘ Oh I see. So the Bible is the literal Word of God but you can pick and choose the parts that you follow?

As has been pointed out already, Christians follow the New Testament. The Old Testament is included in the Bible for context.’

That’s absolute bull. There are many, many Christian faiths ( including mainstream ones) that follow, preach or believe the Old Testament. I’m Catholic and we absolutely were taught to follow
And believe in the creation of the world, Adam and Eve and all the rest of it.
Pretending that the Old Testament suddenly isn’t part of the bible is a smokescreen that many bigots use to get around their homophobia yet many of the passages used to condemn being gay as sinful come from the Old Testament. Not the new

I think you're very much misunderstanding.

Christians do believe in the Old Testament! They still read the Old Testament, the Old Testament is very important! They simply don't follow the Mosaic laws.

Do they eat pork, or rabbit, or shellfish?
Do they wear clothing of mixed fibres?
Do they mix meat and dairy?
Do they abide by all the other dietary laws?
Or all of the other rules, commonly called Mosaic laws on hygiene and purity matters?
I bet my arse they don't.

So are you saying that you live by every single rule in the Old Testament, without exception?shock

😭

@loislovesstewie

Do they eat pork, or rabbit, or shellfish? Do they wear clothing of mixed fibres? Do they mix meat and dairy? Do they abide by all the other dietary laws? Or all of the other rules, commonly called Mosaic laws on hygiene and purity matters? I bet my arse they don't.

Of course they don't, they're Christians. Christians are not required to follow Mosaic law. I thought this was common knowledge?!

Homosexuality is not only referenced in the Old Testament, though. It is also referenced in the New Testament. And this is why it affects Christians.

@MummyWoodentop

I think people are saying it is the bigotry that is bad - so - should we ban bigotry, surely one man's bigoted comment is another person's truth.

One persons 'truth' should not be allowed to harm, hurt or remove the rights and equalities of another person; and where it does, the protection of the second person's rights is more important than the rights of the first person to infringe them. Its really very simple.

@loislovesstewie

Do they eat pork, or rabbit, or shellfish? Do they wear clothing of mixed fibres? Do they mix meat and dairy? Do they abide by all the other dietary laws? Or all of the other rules, commonly called Mosaic laws on hygiene and purity matters? I bet my arse they don't.

Probably not, those are Jewish laws, from the Old Testament.

Homosexuality is not only referenced in the Old Testament, though. It is also referenced in the New Testament. And this is why it affects Christians.

And yet plenty of Christians manage not to act like these people.

‘ So are you saying that you live by every single rule in the Old Testament, without exception?shock’ @AlexaShutUp

I don’t live by ANY rule of any religion as I’m an Atheist who believes in science and not fairytales.
I’m not sure how you got I follow any Testament from what I’ve been posting!
Even as a child going to a church school and going to church I could see the hypocrisy and contradictions and nonsense in religion, and do t get me started on the misogyny and paedophilia in so many faiths.