To think this couple's attitude has no place in modern society?

[Georama]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10419543/Christian-couple-ban-gay-man-partner-buying-dream-650-000-sexuality.html

A church-going wife who banned a gay man and his ITV producer partner from buying her £650,000 Surrey home has hit back in the row and insisted they are just sticking to their beliefs.

Luke Whitehouse and Lachlan Mantell were stunned when they were told that they could not buy the three-bedroom home because the Christian owners didn't want to sell to 'two men in a partnership.'

Honestly, they should be ashamed of that text. I hope no estate agent will work with them ever again.

Christian man has 13 siblings!!!

V unusual here these days. Assume family follows pretty fundamental Christian beliefs as well.

I personally can't even begin to imagine carrying birthing caring for 14 kids. Each to their own obv i just couldn't deal with that at all.

DH would have had 3, my perinatal MH got worse each time and we knew that doing again could have severe long term consequences for me (if got through it).

I always wonder about MH in societies, religious groups, before contraception. How women who got MH issues Pg etc carried on tbh.

Sorry side track!

And having read it I think

Massive point

They didn't need to do that at all. They could have just assumed couple (I mean v safe bet surely). And said oh sorry we in negotiations had offer so sorry taking off market for a bit. Or something.

But they had to go all out to tell them they were sinners etc.

THAT'S for me a BIG thing.

Beliefs can be stuck to without being a bastard about it.

Smug horrible bastards.

No one is trying to police thoughts and opinions, they’re objecting to the couples actions. They may have some kind of legal loophole to discriminate because it’s a private sale, but that doesn’t mean they’re beyond criticism and the couple shouldn’t talk about the way they’ve been treated. If you don’t want people to expose you as a bigot don’t act like one in the first place.

Is it sad that I’m not remotely surprised? Unfortunately there are still a lot of people in society that think that way; some are just more vocal than others. Maybe I’m a bad gay and just not politically-minded enough nowadays, but I usually just let these comments slide because life is too short and I’d rather take my money elsewhere. For those without any experience of homophobia or similar discrimination, please try to understand that it can be a truly awful and humiliating experience. Free speech is a wonderful thing, but surely it shouldn’t come at the cost of someone’s rights or make them feel like a second-class citizen. Everyone should be entitled to their views but it’s another matter to use said views to actively discriminate against somebody. This has always been an emotive issue, but I do think that people on both sides of such conversations could often learn to be kinder and more tolerant though.

Well said

Well said @Elsiebear90 (sorry got a bit trigger happy with the post button before tagging)

YABU, because surely a modern society should be tolerant to all views and beliefs, and allow people to practise their religion freely, even where people find it offensive.

So you believe that the radical Jihadi Islam that ISIS practice should be tolerated and that we should allow those who wish to follow it here in the UK to do so freely? An extreme example I grant you but what about those who wish to follow Salafism or Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh ideologies? Is it OK for them or is freedom of religous expression only ok for Christians?

@WindInTheWillows7

YABU, because surely a modern society should be tolerant to all views and beliefs, and allow people to practise their religion freely, even where people find it offensive.

Why should we tolerate the expression of views and beliefs in ways that are against the law? Is it really acceptable for people to send religious texts telling another person that they're shameful and depraved?

@WindInTheWillows7

YABU, because surely a modern society should be tolerant to all views and beliefs, and allow people to practise their religion freely, even where people find it offensive.

Hmm.

For those supporting views similar to the above.

There are logical endpoints to consider here.

No not likely to happen. But it's always instructive to look at extremes to see if there's anything that could present a problem.

So extreme endpoints-

Christian couple are completely unable to sell their house, and when hunting anything they want to look at are told no. Don't agree with couples beliefs.

That's ok to those supporting right to express beliefs?

Couple go on holiday wherever without realising it's totally populated by a different religion. This religion has rule not to transact with Christians.

Hotel booked turns them away when arrive on I dunno. Bible t-shirts, crosses, striking up convo about Christian values as soon as arrive. Not unlikely, this couple seem pretty keen to let others know about their beliefs. At length.

Only one ferry a week to get away. Stuck there. No one will let them stay, sell them food, anything.

That's fine right? Yes pretty unlikely. But. Logically that would be fine.

And another more general question.

Christian couple gets knock on door. Panicked gay couple are being chased by gang of men with baseball bats, can see coming down road. Maybe add some of those flame stick bundles. Think terrifying middle ages type scene, and obviously after the blokes.

They beg to come in to shelter and call police etc.

What a bind!

Let them in house?
Blokes getting close they won't make it to another house knock wait etc.
They ARE sinners though.
If they decide no. And close door. The thugs aren't their fault. Maybe could tell themselves well don't want to get involved. Yes that's why.
Or just. Not going to help sinners.

That IS ok, right? I mean beliefs are beliefs.

Yes extremes.
The point is. A blanket adhere to beliefs everyone. Worth thinking what that approach actually allows.

There is no clash here under the EA. Being a Christian does not mean being prejudiced against people for their sexual orientation. Having a weird and wrong interpretation of Christianity does. True Christians follow the teachings of Jesus, not the various hangers-on (mainly Paul in the New Testament) who wrote some of the bible. Jesus taught tolerance, acceptance, love, inclusion and non-judgementalism (is that a word?). I don’t believe he would have taught that being gay is wrong. Who cares who loves who in a consenting relationship? Why does it matter to anyone else?

Quit judging others, Surrey couple. Jesus told you not to, after all.

I have zero interest personally in seeing them prosecuted.

It would be entirely counter productive.

There is at least one Christian org who fund legal fees etc for cases that they think will in some way help their goal of getting various laws changed here.

A really bad idea.

I hope the gay couple find awesome home.

The couple who told the men they would not engage in a transaction with them because they were sinners.

The couple who said no can't sell house.

The physicist I'm guessing will find at work various things. Colleagues not impressed. Employer not impressed. Maybe others saying not prepared to work with her.

They did NOT need to behave this way. Sorry off market we got offer etc. Done.

Their decision to say you're sinners, look Bible reference, etc etc.

They brought this on themselves.

I can't understand anyone who says the MEN did wrong thing going to press! I mean FFS. The homosexuality is a sin couple brought this whole thing on themselves. Because they couldn't resist laying it on thick about just how disgusting the men were.

It's an odd approach, I think even for very orthodox Christians, but I think the reaction and newspaper story is inappropriate.

People will believe different things that you do, some of them you will not like. Other people sometimes really won't like the things you believe either.

We don't put their pictures in the paper, that achieves nothing. Act like a grown up and move on. Private sellers don't have to sell you their house, car, dog, vase, etc, for any reason. It doesn't have to be fair.

People talk about the value in diversity and pluralism. Well, that's what this is. A society where people have diverse worldviews and beliefs. That's what it looks like when you have multiple cultures. Having that means you can't be expecting validation from everyone.

Deeply unpleasant and rather foolish if people are offering you good money but I somewhat disagree with you. I think there's a place for most unpleasant views in society even though I disagree with many. The absolutist part of me would love to shut them down but realistically I would rather their hateful views were free to be aired than everyone being policed for "wrongthink".

Having beliefs isn't the same aas-

Choosing to express them, in no uncertain terms, to random individuals. They could have said loads of other things to say sorry house not available.

But no.

They chose to, well. In my honest opinion, given what they wrote.

Grab the opportunity to put the boot in as hard as they could. I've come across, and no it's not that common. The sort of smug self righteousness a fair few times. I think you're SHIT and you can't argue because I'm simply a much better person.

What they wrote screams that attitude.

If someone is a total arsehole to you and uses excuse of faith. Then why on earth not act?

They did NOT need to write that at all. Their CHOICE. They can now see if there are any consequences.

I have NEVER had any of that attitude from any other faith. Ever.

And I have no beef in general it's specifically those who can't help themselves from telling you they're better than anyone else.

What does that say?

Examples.

1. 6th form a boy of a v strict group local to the area. Telling my goth mate all the body time. That she was a witch. Evil. Should repent. She was dangerous, an agent of Satan etc.

Humph. (I worried about his brother's future, he wasn't a good fit for that group. And leaving/being expelled vvv big deal for person who goes).

1. Same group actually! When child. Group out high street weekends. Maybe 15 people in line.

Have to spread the word of God. Slight issue. Closed, no one allowed to join.

Answer? Inform passers by they are sinners, they are evil, they deserve to burn, they are headed for hell etc.

Yay? They were where walked past from my house. Holding mums hand age 4 to get bread. Burn, sinner!

There's having beliefs,
Expressing beliefs
But also
Being a dick about it.

IMO.

I have to be totally honest and say that i think this is a publicity stunt but if it’s not then they are lucky to be able to have a property to sell as I’m still renting.

On who's part?

I think texting that not definite enough will mean reaction these men had. Most would surely think arseholes and move on.

I can't see the two couples being in cahoots to raise topic of belief expression etc in paper? Could be I suppose. Think vv unlikely though.

Or all a fabrication you think?

I’ve never understood why you would Care who buys the house you no longer want to live in.
Why does the seller need to know anything about them?

It's a ridiculous attitude to take but it is their house and they can choose to sell, or indeed not sell, to whomever they please for whatever reason.

What would be the alternative? Force them to sell?

Em,

No,

The alternative which is entirely obvious and people do all time because not horrible people.

Is to make an EXCUSE. Rather than saying eg. Hello person from pottery club. Sorry can't come to dinner because I think you're a c*nt.

To go with neutral refusal.

In this case.

Why even ask to find if gay?
They're buying a sodding house together!
Clearly not dad and son.
I mean it's odds on right, that couple.

I mean FGS they had to be SURE? Before telling them sinners?! Really?!

When could have thought. Hmm getting vibes of sin here. Not keen.

Hello couple! Really sorry but taking house of market for a bit, got offer negotiating.
Good luck with house hunt!

Rather than message saying essentially-

Well sorry but our religion means we know you are evil.
I mean here's the Bible reference to read for yourselves how despicable you are. Sorry but you know. Can't interact with those linked to Satan. Bye now!

Don't tell me.

Certain Christian beliefs involve things like-

• Letting others know when on path of sin
• Facing up to those who defy God is crucial
• Spread the word (even in situations where clearly result will not be to bring about repentance and turn to Christ
• Erm. That sort of thing.

@Kona84

I’ve never understood why you would Care who buys the house you no longer want to live in. Why does the seller need to know anything about them?

Yes your right

Imagine it was a property worth multi millions and the agent would always be showing people around and you would only be notified to sign papers.
If I had a house to sell I wouldn’t care who bought it as I’m selling it.