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Original poster

To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall?

998 replies

GrendelsGrandma · 19/01/2022 07:27

I know he'll be replaced by someone equally awful and I know he's not quite gone yet, but I can't remember when I felt uplifted about politics and the ejection of this national embarrassment is warming my cockles. Anyone else feel the same?

OP posts:
Florianus · 21/01/2022 16:41

@jgw1

*Yes, not least because we now know that the person who warned that the party should not go ahead sent the message to the party organiser (Martin Reynolds) and not to Boris Johnson.

If you are just patient and wait for Sue Gray's report next week it will save you getting in such a muddle about what happened.*

Ah, but how is Sue Gray's report going to be any different to William Wraggs? It is just going to be a list of the things people have told her, in the same way that Wragg reported on the things he had been told.

Without 24/7 recordings from every room in Downing Street and where ever else Boris might have wandered that day we will not have complete evidence that no one warned him that a party was a party.

It is likely to contain copies of emails, lists of attendees, names of organisers of events and so forth.
Florianus · 21/01/2022 16:43

@Mayorquimby2

"How's about I take you to court for theft? I know there are no witnesses, but I say you stole my wallet. I must be right because I say so."

Pssssssst

You'd be the witness in that case

Goodee. In that case you must return my money now.

HINT for the hard of understanding: the court would need either a witness to you stealing my money, or proof such as finding my wallet on your person.

An allegation is not evidence. Try to rememeber the difference.

22itsallnew · 21/01/2022 16:45

@Florianus stop trying to gaslight us.

I do understand the workplace rules in place in May2020 as my DH runs a business and had stringent policies in place to keep staff in different depts separate from each other (for one reason if there had been a Covid outbreak everyone wwould have had to self-isolate for 2 weeks disabling the company entirely) There was only a skeleton staff on the premises as the company had followed the Government's instruction to get those who could work from home to work from home.

Meanwhile I was working from home for another organisation( simulateneously attempting to home-school my children) No parties / social gatherings allowed when my DC left primary 2 months after that.

Johnson has asked of the public what he & his colleagues were unwilling to do themselves (see also the ex Health Minister )

@florianus Do you honestly think they should have held drinks in the garden at that time?

Florianus · 21/01/2022 16:48

@Peregrina

Weren't a couple of students fined quite heavily for throwing a party and then thrown out of their University to boot? They should just have said, bring booze - we are holding a seminar.
200 students at Coventry University were filmed holding a party with no social distancing. The 2 students who organised it were fined £200 each. Those who merely attended were not sanctioned.
22itsallnew · 21/01/2022 16:49

@Notonthestairs

It's the idea that stipulating that the word party has to be on the invitation for it to be a party that boggles my mind.

Anyway thank heavens it's Friday, I hope you all have work events lined up.

It's the fact that Boris Johnson doesn't know that he is attending a party - as people pitch up with their own booze and sit in his garden - that boggles mine. I mean is that just standard working practice then?

Cheese & wine gathering for me. Cheers @Notonthestairs

BashStreetKid · 21/01/2022 16:51

Florianus, how many work events have you attended where it was optional for workers to attend? And where they were invited to bring their own booze?

Florianus · 21/01/2022 16:51

22itsallnew
@florianus Do you honestly think they should have held drinks in the garden at that time?

No, I have said many times that the organiser should be punished, and I have little doubt that he will be.

Florianus · 21/01/2022 16:52

@BashStreetKid

Florianus, how many work events have you attended where it was optional for workers to attend? And where they were invited to bring their own booze?
What has that got to do with anything, other than wasting time?
Mayorquimby2 · 21/01/2022 16:52

Goodee. In that case you must return my money now."

Well no because I would deny it and account for my actions at the time of the alleged offence and that denial is also evidence.

"HINT for the hard of understanding: the court would need either a witness to you stealing my money, or proof such as finding my wallet on your person."

First of all this is laughably incorrect as to the proofs necessary for a theft offence.

secondly... You'd be the witness to me stealing your wallet.

what you're confusing is what constitutes evidence and what a level of evidence a court might need to find someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Someone taking the stand and saying he stole my wallet and he did so in this manner is irrefutably evidence.

If there is no other evidence such as cctv, finding the stolen goods on me or a multitude of other witnesses the court might decide it is not sufficient evidence to find me guilty. That wouldn't retrospectively make your testimony "not evidence".

Toanewstart22 · 21/01/2022 16:53

@BashStreetKid

Florianus, how many work events have you attended where it was optional for workers to attend? And where they were invited to bring their own booze?
Yes to being optional - many. And yes to their being drinks. Finance. City.

And bring your own booze was presumably to limit drink sharing and in pre covid times their would have been a bar or drinks laid on.

BashStreetKid · 21/01/2022 16:54

No, it is an allegation not evidence. And it has already been countered by Kwasi Kwarteng who alleges that what Wakeford said is "probably not true", but adding that the allegation would be investigated if evidence emerged

You really do not understand what does and does not constitute evidence.

Unless Kwarteng was present during the conversation in question, he is in no position to give any opinion on whether it was or was not true. I do hope he's never on any jury.

Florianus · 21/01/2022 16:54

22itsallnew:
It's the fact that Boris Johnson doesn't know that he is attending a party - as people pitch up with their own booze and sit in his garden - that boggles mine

You will be even more boggled, in that case, to learn that the garden of No.10 is part of the No.10 workplace.

Toanewstart22 · 21/01/2022 16:55

My work events were not bring your own as there was a bar or laid on

This was to limit sharing

Blossomtoes · 21/01/2022 16:55

pre covid times their would have been a bar or drinks laid on

Not in the civil service there wouldn’t.

BashStreetKid · 21/01/2022 16:56

Yes to being optional - many. And yes to their being drinks. Finance. City.

And bring your own booze was presumably to limit drink sharing and in pre covid times their would have been a bar or drinks laid on.

Did those events happen less than two months after lockdown began, at the time when we had shameful infection and death rates in the UK?

Given that refreshments were laid on, manifestly there was no intention or effort to limit close contact.

Mayorquimby2 · 21/01/2022 16:57

What do you think happens with public order offences when a police officer is the only witness and there's no cctv?

The judge just says "you saying things you witnessed occurring isn't evidence? Dismissed" every time 😂😂😂

BashStreetKid · 21/01/2022 16:58

@Florianus, unfortunately for your your arguments about the party fall down in face of the fact that Johnson himself accepts that it shouldn't have happened, he shouldn't have been there, and he could and should have stopped it.

Florianus · 21/01/2022 16:59

BashStreetKid
Unless Kwarteng was present during the conversation in question, he is in no position to give any opinion on whether it was or was not true.

Wakeford claims that he was told that a school would not be built in his constituency if he voted against the government. He actually walked out of the party - yet the school is still being built.

The balance of probabilities (which is what matters in civil cases) is that Wakeford - who has now gone strangely silent - is telling porkies.
I

NiceShrubbery · 21/01/2022 16:59

He. Was. A. Part. Of. The. Dodgy. Gatherings.

Believe what you like but please stop twisting things, quoting me and taking up thread space with gaslighting and telling everyone they're hard of understanding as it's not even funny any more. The other one got reported and has stopped (temporarily anyway).

Notonthestairs · 21/01/2022 16:59

The ­survey found that more than 8,000 fines have been issued since the start of the ­pandemic, totalling £680,000.The five universities that have issued the most fines are: University of Reading (£86,796); Leeds Beckett University (£60,085); University of Bath (£48,273); University of Northumbria (£47,930); Manchester Metropolitan University (£47,850).

from the Express. They should have said they were working.

Notonthestairs · 21/01/2022 17:02

"Wakeford claims that he was told that a school would not be built in his constituency if he voted against the government"

And did he vote against?

Florianus · 21/01/2022 17:02

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ClaudineClare · 21/01/2022 17:04

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Toanewstart22 · 21/01/2022 17:04

@Blossomtoes

pre covid times their would have been a bar or drinks laid on

Not in the civil service there wouldn’t.

At that level, definitely