To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall?

[GrendelsGrandma]

I know he'll be replaced by someone equally awful and I know he's not quite gone yet, but I can't remember when I felt uplifted about politics and the ejection of this national embarrassment is warming my cockles. Anyone else feel the same?

Peregina
It is naive to expect that the sort of blackmail and threats identified by Will Wragg would be documented or contained in a paper trail - much more likely to be conveyed by a quiet word in the ear.

Really? There are said to be emails and a tape recording - but nobody has actually produced them as yet. It's just Chinese Whispers at present.

Not a statement made by me.

However, this lot are so brazen that they would probably put a blackmail threat on record in the belief that they will get away with it.

@BashStreetKid

Here's an idea, *@Clavinova*, save yourself the trouble of all the selective cutting and pasting. Surely you've worked out by now that people see right through it?

I don’t even bother reading it any more.

The interview with Christian Wakeford isn't "Chinese whispers" or hearsay - it is direct evidence

BashStreetKid
Looks like @ Clavinova and friends will be getting more of that evidence that they think doesn't exist

Out of interest - did you vote for Labour in 2017/2019? Why was Keir Starmer happy to sit on Jeremy Corbyn's front bench?

No, I didn't. LibDem.

Could you explain what exactly my vote has to do with the text I quoted relating to evidence of blackmail in the Tory party?

Making a false allegation is not evidence.

Unless you want to say that making a false allegation is evidence of someone being a liar, of course. I do not claim that William Wragg is a liar - just that he has provided no evidence of his claim. I am astonished that the usual types cannot understand that.

Total logic fail there. Providing no evidence doesn't mean that the allegation is false.

I have a sneaking suspicion Sue Gray might play a blinder. She’s right at the end of her career with a very handsome pension and would have nothing to lose by delivering a very damning report and then retiring. It’s definitely what I’d be tempted to do if I were her.

@Clavinova

Alexandra2001 Perhaps start a new thread on this subject

No time - I have to go out now.

What a shame. Just when supporting evidence from an MP who has been intimidated by Tory Whips has popped up.

@Florianus

Peregina It is naive to expect that the sort of blackmail and threats identified by Will Wragg would be documented or contained in a paper trail - much more likely to be conveyed by a quiet word in the ear.

Really? There are said to be emails and a tape recording - but nobody has actually produced them as yet. It's just Chinese Whispers at present.

Nope. We now have direct evidence from Christan Wakeford that he was threatened with loss of funding for his constituency if he didn't toe the party line.

I suspect Clavinova isn't out, she's frantically trawling the web to find some evidence of Labour pressurising MPs decades ago.

Thought you might all like to see the response to my email to my Tory MP.

Thank you for your email.

I understand and share the anger felt by people across the country at allegations of gatherings in Downing Street during the pandemic. So many of us have made extraordinary personal sacrifices throughout the pandemic. We followed the rules to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our communities. I know for many people, it is deeply upsetting to think that those in Downing Street, who set the rules, did not follow them.

I welcome the ongoing investigation into these allegations which will establish all the facts and report back as soon as possible. This is an independent investigation and is being led by Sue Gray, second permanent secretary at the Department of Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. I await the outcome of the inquiry at which point the Prime Minister will make a statement in Parliament.

@BashStreetKid

I suspect Clavinova isn't out, she's frantically trawling the web to find some evidence of Labour pressurising MPs decades ago.

I suppose she may be able to dig up something something involving Alistair Campbell a decade or so ago.

Unfortunately a damning report isn't within her remit or powers and it has to cross DeFiddles desk before it reaches anyone.

That's why they've been so eager to play up the idea that the report will cast judgement or provide concussions when they know it can't at which point they'll try to shout that the inquiry made no findings of wrongdoing.

It's a game of three cases monty that they believe the pubic are stupid enough to fall for.

Watching from afar, with no ties to your country that's the part that is so staggering. How absolutely stupid they consider everyone to be.

Unfortunately a damning report isn't within her remit or powers and it has to cross DeFiddles desk before it reaches anyone.

It’s definitely within her remit and powers if the facts are damning. There’s no reason why it couldn’t leak, in fact I’d be astonished if it didn’t.

@Blossomtoes

Thought you might all like to see the response to my email to my Tory MP.

Thank you for your email.

I understand and share the anger felt by people across the country at allegations of gatherings in Downing Street during the pandemic. So many of us have made extraordinary personal sacrifices throughout the pandemic. We followed the rules to protect ourselves, our loved ones, and our communities. I know for many people, it is deeply upsetting to think that those in Downing Street, who set the rules, did not follow them.

I welcome the ongoing investigation into these allegations which will establish all the facts and report back as soon as possible. This is an independent investigation and is being led by Sue Gray, second permanent secretary at the Department of Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. I await the outcome of the inquiry at which point the Prime Minister will make a statement in Parliament.

I got one that was almost identical.

I don't see how the report can be truly independent, given that Gray's boss's boss is Johnson. I truly believe that there is no way on this earth that No. 10 won't have at the very least an advance draft copy to, er, "comment" on.

@Clavinova

Or do you think that there's no evidence of Keir S drinking a beer with his dinner

Keir Starmer interviewed on that topic here;

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1550807/Keir-Starmer-BBC-Labour-Party-leader-Sophie-Raworth-party-gate-Boris-Johnson-latest-vn

Starmer was also interviewed on LBC on Monday morning but he couldn't give a straight answer to this question; he was asked how many people attended the 'beer and takeaway meeting' in the Durham constituency office - he flustered before saying that 'around six people usually travel around the country with him in his team' - but he didn't say how many people attended from the Durham office - a further six people??

Do you think Johnson had anything to eat or drink in Taunton yesterday? I think he probably did because when people are away from home for a long day as travelling with work they are entitled to eat and drink.

Human biology hasn't changed because covid restrictions start or end.

@ancientgran @Blossomtoes I also got a very similar email response from Tory HQ my MP.

Except for the addition of this:
I appreciate that these constant drips of information erode trust in politics and want to know the truth as much as everyone else. However it would premature for me to make any decision on putting a letter to the 1922 Committee asking for a leadership challenge at this time.

No you fool! It's not the' constant drips of information' that are eroding trust in politics - it's the behaviour & actions of the PM and his inner circle that are eroding trust in politics!

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

The interview with Christian Wakeford isn't "Chinese whispers" or hearsay - it is direct evidence

No, it is an allegation not evidence. And it has already been countered by Kwasi Kwarteng who alleges that what Wakeford said is "probably not true", but adding that the allegation would be investigated if evidence emerged.

22 that is v funny. The public discovering information is a BAD thing!

@ClaudineClare

I don't see how the report can be truly independent, given that Gray's boss's boss is Johnson. I truly believe that there is no way on this earth that No. 10 won't have at the very least an advance draft copy to, er, "comment" on.

Sue Gray is famous for her independence. Her investigation resulted in Damian Green losing his job in 2017.

A judicial enquiry might have been better, but could easily last years, and would be overkill for investigating historic garden events.

"probably" not true m'lord.

What's the betting lots of phones were triple checked over the last 24 hours. "I'm sure I rang that MP at 3am to tell him he left his glasses behind. I definitely didn't threaten a withdrawal of funding. He must have misheard me" 😉

I think things must be pretty bad if MP's feel the need to secretly record their conversations with Whips (if that happened and it obvious that some people won't believe them W/o it). I've never felt the need to record a colleague.

Even if SG does find evidence of breach of Covid laws, it's apparently up to the Met to decide to pursue 😂. So looks like it'll be corrupt business as usual and more wiffly emails from constituency MPs.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/sue-gray-investigation

@Florianus

Peregina It is naive to expect that the sort of blackmail and threats identified by Will Wragg would be documented or contained in a paper trail - much more likely to be conveyed by a quiet word in the ear.

Really? There are said to be emails and a tape recording - but nobody has actually produced them as yet. It's just Chinese Whispers at present.

You re getting "evidence" and "hearsay" mixed up.

What you want corroboration, which we have, because two other MPs have said the same thing.

[quote NiceShrubbery]Even if SG does find evidence of breach of Covid laws, it's apparently up to the Met to decide to pursue 😂. So looks like it'll be corrupt business as usual and more wiffly emails from constituency MPs.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/sue-gray-investigation[/quote]
I thought it was up to Boris Johnson to decide if he has broken any laws? or is that the Ministerial code?

Probably both.