To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall?

[GrendelsGrandma]

I know he'll be replaced by someone equally awful and I know he's not quite gone yet, but I can't remember when I felt uplifted about politics and the ejection of this national embarrassment is warming my cockles. Anyone else feel the same?

BashStreetKid
Looks like @ Clavinova and friends will be getting more of that evidence that they think doesn't exist

Out of interest - did you vote for Labour in 2017/2019? Why was Keir Starmer happy to sit on Jeremy Corbyn's front bench?

August 2018
Frank Field has resigned the Labour Party whip, claiming that the party has “a culture of intolerance, nastiness and intimidation”.

labourlist.org/2018/08/frank-field-resigns-the-labour-whip/

July 2016
A Labour MP has accused Jeremy Corbyn of threatening to use his father - a former Sinn Féin councillor - in an attempt to "bully me into submission".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36867035

July 2016
Over 40 female Labour MPs have written to party leader Jeremy Corbyn urging him to do more to tackle abuse of MPs...

We have also been alarmed to learn that our shadow chancellor and other members of the shadow cabinet have addressed rallies and events in which demonstrations outside MPs' offices and bullying at CLP meetings have been either actively encouraged or quietly condoned."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36864903

More recently -

May 2021
A shadow minister has quit her frontbench role after being accused of trying to intimidate a Tory MP seeking to assist a parliamentary worker who raised allegations of sexual harassment against a former Labour MP.

Kate Hollern has left her role in Sir Keir Starmer's top team after the accusations were made during an employment tribunal against Mike Hill...

In a written statement, [Tory MP Andrew Bridgen said] he was approached by Ms Hollern in the House of Commons' terrace, who asked him for a private word away from other MPs.

He wrote that Ms Hollern told him: 'Everyone is saying in the Labour Party that you are having an affair with (Ms A) and if I were you I would keep away from her, because you have a wife and baby and you would not want to lose them if it got in the papers.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9574329/Labour-frontbencher-Kate-Hollern-quits-intimidation-claim.html

Did you vote for Tony Blair?

December 2001
A Labour MP complained to Tony Blair that he had been physically and verbally assaulted by "thugs" in the party's whips office.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rebel-mp-claims-labour-whips-assaulted-him-9266196.html

October 2006
^Labour whips turned me into a pariah, says [Clare] Short.
MP says she and her colleagues were subject to constant threats from 'ruthless' whips, who crushed dissent in the Labour Party.^

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-whips-turned-me-into-a-pariah-says-short-421134.html

Would you vote SNP?

September 2020
Scottish National party ministers have been the focus of a “quite remarkable” number of misconduct and bullying complaints compared with those in other parts of the UK, a civil service union leader has told an inquiry.

“The numbers of people raising concerns about the Scottish government are so significantly greater than we are aware of elsewhere that it suggests that something particular – over the longer term – has happened in the Scottish governments,”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/01/snp-ministers-focus-of-remarkable-number-of-bullying-cases-says-union-boss

Or do you think that there's no evidence of Keir S drinking a beer with his dinner because at the moment, where the provinence of the photograph hasn't been proven to a judge, it has to be considered hearsay evidence which is inadmissible in court.

I just asked a pp to stop highlighting my name and that pp has just deliberately done it again.

Reported, also for the previous spam post.

@Mayorquimby2

"Of course not. I am demonstrating why it is so stupid to think that one person making an unsupported claim constitutes "evidence"."

Glad you've clarified you still don't know what evidence is. 👍

One person making an unsupported claim is still evidence. That doesn't mean it's true or that anyone has to believe it, but it's still evidence, to claim otherwise is to redefine what evidence is.

You can reject evidence, such as an unsupported claim, because it's nonsensical, contradicted by other evidence, or precisely because it is unsupported and as such is bit sufficient to satisfy you that it is true or accurate, but it is absolutely evidence in every meaning of the word.

Making a false allegation is not evidence.

Unless you want to say that making a false allegation is evidence of someone being a liar, of course. I do not claim that William Wragg is a liar - just that he has provided no evidence of his claim. I am astonished that the usual types cannot understand that.

Or do you think that there's no evidence of Keir S drinking a beer with his dinner

Keir Starmer interviewed on that topic here;

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1550807/Keir-Starmer-BBC-Labour-Party-leader-Sophie-Raworth-party-gate-Boris-Johnson-latest-vn

Starmer was also interviewed on LBC on Monday morning but he couldn't give a straight answer to this question; he was asked how many people attended the 'beer and takeaway meeting' in the Durham constituency office - he flustered before saying that 'around six people usually travel around the country with him in his team' - but he didn't say how many people attended from the Durham office - a further six people??

I can accept you paying no heed to it because it's an unsupported claim or that based on surrounding evidence that you don't believe it to be true.

But that doesn't mean you get to redefine evidence, particularly when you've been so eager to refer to courts to support your examples.

Sorry posted too early.

Your position was this

"Just saying that something happened is not evidence"

When that is 100 percent evidence in a court. Every single day of the week people are convicted based on someone saying something happened with no other evidence.

@Florianus

Unless you want to say that making a false allegation is evidence of someone being a liar, of course. I do not claim that William Wragg is a liar - just that he has provided no evidence of his claim. I am astonished that the usual types cannot understand that.

Do you think all allegations should only be taken seriously if there is evidence? He is after all, backed up by at least 2 other MPs.

I think with Tory supporters it wouldn't matter what the allegation or the proof - it will be defended.

"do you think that there's no evidence of Keir S drinking a beer with his dinner

Keir Starmer interviewed on that topic here;

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1550807/Keir-Starmer-BBC-Labour-Party-leader-Sophie-Raworth-party-gate-Boris-Johnson-latest-vn

Starmer was also interviewed on LBC on Monday morning but he couldn't give a straight answer to this question; he was asked how many people attended the 'beer and takeaway meeting' in the Durham constituency office - he flustered before saying that 'around six people usually travel around the country with him in his team' - but he didn't say how many people attended from the Durham office - a further six people??"

But that's just people saying things, so not evidence apparently.

Show me any actual "evidence" by our new definition.

Can the poster who has reported me for highlighting her username in bold explain why she has highlighted other usernames in bold on numerous threads? Many thanks.

@Clavinova Doesn't matter what Starmer did or didn't do, this is a thread about Johnson.
Plus different rules applied and we had vaccines.

as i said earlier, you need to up your game :)

Plus different rules applied and we had vaccines

Not so sure Starmer didn't break the rules if you read this link - and that still doesn't explain why he couldn't answer a simple question;

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10412259/Former-Labour-MP-TOM-HARRIS-self-appointed-Witchfinder-General-Covid-parties-apologise.html

@Clavinova

Perhaps start a new thread on this subject.

It's particularly interesting that Johnson's response to the blackmail issue is "I've seen no evidence of it"

Yes - hardly a reassuring response! And I am not sure that is even true now that Wakeford has gone on the record and said that he was blackmailed. As PP have said, witness evidence is still "evidence".

Feels like we are governed by a bunch of gangsters.

ps Clavinova's MO is to derail a thread by spamming with copious cut n paste - best to scroll on by.

Alexandra2001
Perhaps start a new thread on this subject

No time - I have to go out now.

Oh please don't start one of your c&p fests, Clav. This thread is about current events in Westminster.

@Clavinova

Alexandra2001 Perhaps start a new thread on this subject

No time - I have to go out now.

@YourenutsmiLord

Amazing that he can't see he needs to go. What Sue Gray says is not that relevant - he was slow to demand a lock down which resulted in so many deaths, he revamped No 10 (OMG how can that be a priority during a pandemic) on borrowed money, the corruption of money to Tory friends, more corruption of MPs working from their Parliamentary offices on other much more lucrative stuff, Owen Patterson - ....................... too much already.

Agree with this. This is so much more than about parties. If he hadn’t had a good vaccine minister with a good team that she selected then he would have been sunk long before this. The trouble is that he surrounded himself with mostly people who were likely to be easy to deal with and not the most able or experienced. Rishi is popular as he gave loads of money away but how long will that last as we face austerity? However, we can expect more integrity from him.The only one with enough experience and intelligence is Gove and he isn’t popular !!! Whoever replaces him will be welcome as this country has to be led by a grown up who can be respected abroad as well as here.

Quite why Clav needs to announce s/he is going out is anyone’s guess.

I’m popping upstairs with my cup of tea now. Anyone give a monkeys about that...?

no I thought not.

Clavinova only wants a thread to diss Starmer - but can't be bothered to start one.

It is naive to expect that the sort of blackmail and threats identified by Will Wragg would be documented or contained in a paper trail - much more likely to be conveyed by a quiet word in the ear.

There were rumours about threats to withdraw levelling up funding when the Owen Paterson shitshow was in full swing. It sounds plausible to me.

The current govt culture sounds similar to Mafia/gang culture - keep the boss insulated from any evidence of wrongdoing as much as possible, keep everything "off record" as much as possible, "lose" phones at strategic intervals. This lot will drag our country into the gutter to save their own skins.

These are the points I would suggest people look at before making a judgement about Johnson

Read the information on Johnson's private and professiononal life in Wikipedia to assess his judgement and sense of responsibility

Amber Rudd made a comment that while Boris was the life and soul of the party you wouldn't want him driving you home

When the Brexit bus drove onto Lemon Quay in Truro how did people interpret the words about using £350 million paid to Europe to fund the NHS.

Getting Brexit done, who was 'done' here though? The UK or the EU. The fish processors now have difficulties in exporting some of their catches due to EU sanctions. Blame here is also on Cameron who didn't make the downside of leaving the EU clear. Also people who kept on about monarchy often meant that they felt the UK was losing it's heritage so they voted to leave.

I won't vote Conservative again, I'm not a fan of Labour party policy but would vote for the candidate they had at the last election as she would make a good constituency MP. Yes I live in Cornwall.

Blame here is also on Cameron who didn't make the downside of leaving the EU clear.

IMO the blame with him lies in not making how we have benefitted from the EU clear. But he couldn't do that, because he had spent most of his premiership conveniently blaming the EU when the buck should have stopped with his Government in Westminster.

Also in not insisting that the Leave side had a clear manifesto of what they hoped to achieve. Hence a lot of empty and contradictory promises were made.