To be really enjoying Boris Johnson's downfall?

[GrendelsGrandma]

I know he'll be replaced by someone equally awful and I know he's not quite gone yet, but I can't remember when I felt uplifted about politics and the ejection of this national embarrassment is warming my cockles. Anyone else feel the same?

But the Prime Minister is not in charge of civil servants !

@Florianus you expect us to believe that we have a Prime Minister who is sufficiently stupid he doesnt know when he is at a party and that he is not in charge of his Principal Private Secretary?

Wow!

I have to say no. Sorry @GrendelsGrandma Because, why does it matter? We will just get another Tory in his place if he's ousted out. I kinda hope it's Rishi, but the next best thing IMO, would be a General Election this summer, so we can get the Tories out - fingers crossed.

@JaniieJones

'A social gathering, with booze and food was against the law at the time, to check this you could watch the Downing Street briefing given by Oliver Dowden on 20th May 2020. Would you like me to share a clip with you?'

They were work colleagues at work, how many times do you need telling?!!

They may have broken rules or they may not. We don't get to decide.

@JaniieJones They were work colleagues socialising, which was against the law.

How many times do you need telling?!!
They did break the law. You don't get to decide.

A peerage is the usual offer to civil servants who have done wrong.

@Florianus please could you share with us one or more examples of civil servants who have done wrong and then been given a peerage.

'They did break the law. You don't get to decide.'

I know I don't get to decide. The inquiry will provide the evidence and a conclusion. Finally we agree!

@JaniieJones

'whether you also find David Davies pathetic, ranting and a silly man?'

Yes but he has form doesn't he, I believe he has pitted himself against former leaders too. I liked Sir Leigh's come back quoting Amery 'keep going!' Which strangely the media haven't repeated ad nauseam as they have with Davis' mutterings. I thought I'd already said this but fwiw you shouldn't demand an answer jgw1 to your questions, you aren't in charge. HTH.

@JaniieJones Thank you, it just seemed so odd that you were getting so worked up yesterday about a question from the leader of the SNP in Westminster and not a very similar question from one of the government's own backbenchers.

If you stand back this whole sorry mess is just the death throes of a narcissist. They wont back down, they lie, dissemble, blame others. They start pulling everyones attention onto minor details such as their perception, when is a party not a party thinking it detracts from the bigger picture which they can't defend. Everyone round them gets pulled into the madness like a parallel universe. To onlookers its like the UK has gone insane. In normal times, if he was a normal functional person he would be toast.
What the narcissist Johnson can't see is that he is just rolling around in the shit causing untold damage to himself, the government and the country. He just think he needs to win this battle and can't see he has lost the war. The fact he doesn't actually want to do the job and he's shit at it is the narcissist cherry on the cake. Just like Trump.

@jgw1

But the Prime Minister is not in charge of civil servants !

@Florianus you expect us to believe that we have a Prime Minister who is sufficiently stupid he doesnt know when he is at a party and that he is not in charge of his Principal Private Secretary?

Wow!

This. And who reported my post? There are some seriously thin skins round here. Clearly it wasn’t the poster it was addressed to because they responded to it.

And do you really not understand that the garden of No.10 is part of the No.10 workplace

Doesn’t matter. My local Tesco’s car park is a workplace. The staff weren’t having drunken trolley races after hours.

[quote Notonthestairs]@ClaudineClare

twitter.com/peston/status/1484109819183255552?s=21[/quote]
Thanks!

@Fairylightsongs

They were work colleagues at work

Agree, a lot of people were and still are confused on this, work meetings were absolutely permitted where required, even hotels let you book them, and there was no rules about what you were permitted to eat or drink during them.

But they were to be essential and minimise attendees. Not drinks for 100 people including spouses!

@JaniieJones

'They did break the law. You don't get to decide.'

I know I don't get to decide. The inquiry will provide the evidence and a conclusion. Finally we agree!

If you mean Sue Gray, she has no jurisdiction to determine whether laws were broken - it is no more than an internal inquiry, to decide whether disciplinary action is appropriate, as the terms of reference make clear

Yes, some people seem to think Sue Grey has a kind of judicial role. She does not.

@VikingOnTheFridge

Yes, some people seem to think Sue Grey has a kind of judicial role. She does not.

It is a line being fed to us by Downing Street so that they can then go, look Sue Gray didn't say the law was broken, which is of course nothing to do with her inqury.

Actually I don't believe the internal report is expected to conclude anything. It is a fact finding exercise.

If it is suggested that any minister has breached Regs and therefore is in breach of the ministerial code of conduct then Johnson can decide to refer their conduct to Lord Geildt who will then report to Johnson who will then decide whether to take action.

It all rather seems stacked in Johnson's favour.

But they were to be essential and minimise attendees. Not drinks for 100 people including spouses!

Other people understood this, without having to have to be told.

I think people trying to find loopholes can’t understand how much loss was experienced over the last 2 years, and how it feels to realise that the PM didn’t think the rules applied to him, that it wasn’t really serious. If there were going to be loopholes there are others who were far more deserving of a loophole.

No. 10 will already know at the very least the broad brushstrokes of Gray's report. It should have been a judge-led inquiry, not a weak imitation of one, designed to appease the plebs.

@JaniieJones

'What I find surprising is that even as a member of the public it’s easy to read Boris’s personality type. He is not the sort to be bullied, he will fight back and dig his heels in'

Yes he is a strong leader, true.

@JaniieJones Such a strong leader that he can't reintroduce the "Plan B " measures next week even if he wanted or needed to, and so strong that he is going to let the legislation lapse in March because he knows the loons in is party won't vote for it.

SG process is mainly fact finding, but even then only on an overview/broad brush basis, to get a swift general understanding of the "nature of the gatherings"

From the ToR:

The primary purpose will be to establish swiftly a general understanding of the nature of the gatherings, including attendance, the setting and the purpose, with reference to adherence to the guidance in place at the time.
If required, the investigations will establish whether individual disciplinary action is warranted.
...
As with all internal investigations, if during the course of the work any evidence emerges of behaviour that is potentially a criminal offence, the matter will be referred to the police and the Cabinet Office’s work may be paused. Matters relating to adherence to the law are properly for the police to investigate and the Cabinet Office will liaise with them as appropriate.
Any matters relating to the conduct of Ministers should follow the process set out in the Ministerial Code in the normal way.

@ClaudineClare

No. 10 will already know at the very least the broad brushstrokes of Gray's report. It should have been a judge-led inquiry, not a weak imitation of one, designed to appease the plebs.

Definitely! At the very least it should have been conducted by an independent investigator.

They were work colleagues at work, how many times do you need telling?!!

They were work colleagues SOCIALISING after work, albeit outside their work place.

My equivalent would be for me to be drinking and eating, chatting together socialising with dozens of my fellow teaching staff in the playground at my school, after school finishes.

Neither was allowed.
It's not rocket science.
At the time we were in lockdown.
You could meet colleagues for essential reasons. Having a glass of wine and some cheese isn't an essential element of a work meeting.

Yes, OP, I'm very much enjoying watching the house of cards fall.

Here's the latest twist in the season finale

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1484111208957431809?s=20

Lewis Goodall makes a good point.

‘Levelling up’ policies don’t carry much weight if funding can be so easily dropped.

@jgw1

But the Prime Minister is not in charge of civil servants !

@Florianus you expect us to believe that we have a Prime Minister who is sufficiently stupid he doesnt know when he is at a party and that he is not in charge of his Principal Private Secretary?

Wow!

Civil servants at No.10 are the responsibility of the Chief of Staff. The clue is in the name : Chief of Staff. The Prime Minister is in charge of the politicians (including cabinet ministers) of his party. The roles have been clearly defined for centuries.

The pro Johnson camp are wheeling out the real heavyweights now to defend him. Heavyweights like Michael Fabricant and his wig.