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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

None of the other kids cried or screamed like that

128 replies

Roundandroundthejardim · 17/01/2022 21:28

Just want to check if my DD, 3.5’s behaviour seems normal and how you’d react if it was your child.
Took her on one of the those remote control cars at the shopping centre.
She had great fun and really enjoyed it…until it ended. Her dad reversed her into the car part and we said how fun it was, she was great at driving etc and it had finished now and we were off to get some nice lunch.
She screamed like I’ve not seen her do before, I had to get her out of the car, whilst she shouted and cried and proceeded to bite my shoulder. She then did the same as we were walking around a shop and she wouldn’t put a soft toy back, she has plenty of treats and it’s just been Xmas etc. Dp had to pick her up as she wouldn’t co operate, again she shouted and cried and tried to bite his shoulder.
Worth noting she was tired, but is that normal?! None of the other children reacted like that. Lately she just seems to be shouting so much and isn’t that pleasant to be around. We love her dearly, but it’s such a struggle, she’s so strong willed.
Is this normal behaviour and how would you deal with it? Is she being spoilt, do we need to be stronger/stricter (Dp thinks so) or is this just her age etc?

OP posts:
Thecazelets · 18/01/2022 08:30

Yes, normal. Mine are adults and teenagers now and perfectly well-adjusted but I am still scarred from experiences like this nearly 2 decades ago! Doesn't even have to be obviously child-centred attractions that sets them off. Once it was a display of wheely suitcases in a department store, and another time it was a broom at a Christmas tree market. It was not pretty either time.

Ajl46 · 18/01/2022 08:30

@Roundandroundthejardim

I also feel my mum secretly thinks I’m not being strong enough with her as she subtly comments about DD’s ‘Strong character’ and how she doesn’t remember any of us being like this (I think she had a very easy time with us all)
Just tell your mum that your DD isn't bossy but she is showing signs of strong leadership potential!
SwanShaped · 18/01/2022 08:34

It’s totally normal for some kids. You need to help her learn about her emotions so you can describe how she must be feeling disappointed because the car was so fun. And explain that her turn has finished and she can’t go on it anymore.

RealBecca · 18/01/2022 09:04

Some things are worse than others. Now we just dont fo the things he goes ballistic at. Fuck that.

iCouldSleepForAYear · 18/01/2022 09:13

Yes, normal. Incredibly difficult, and the spanking/smacking generation often don't understand our approach. Janet Lansburys advice helped me a lot during this stage, as far as how to project calm authority.

My DD3 aged 4 1/2 is only just starting to get a grip when we go out to the shops. Unfortunately, 18+ months of lockdown took away a lot of chances to bring her round the grocery store in a trolley, or to the mall and a cafe, between age 2 and 11 months and age 4. A huge, HUGE gap in learning how we behave in public and what to expect from a trip out.

IME, it gets better with practice. Talking about what we're going to do and get (or not get) before leaving the house and once more before going in the building sometimes helps. Timing shopping so that it's straight after a meal can help. Pre-pandemic, when that wasn't always possible (like emergency groceries after nursery pickup) the shops with the free fruit for children were a sanity saver.

Titsywoo · 18/01/2022 09:17

I found 2 to about 4 or 5 pretty hard as the DC were so up and down and the tantrums are exhausting. She sounds completely normal. Ignore your mum. My MIL loves to criticise parenting and how her kids weren't like that and what she thinks should be done. She did it to me 15 years ago and my BIL and SIL now. She is talking shit and remembering things how she wants to remember them. We nod and ignore.

iCouldSleepForAYear · 18/01/2022 09:23

Sometimes, removing a tantruming child from a situation can help. Easier if there's two adults there. But we have taken DD2 straight out of restaurants, soft play centres, and grocery stores when she's kicked off before, and let her strop it out outside, before bringing her back in. It stopped some of the overstimulation and sent a message that the behavior isn't acceptable in that place. Pre-pandemic, it was totally normal for a stressed out parent to leave a shopping trolley full of groceries at customer service, while they hauled a screaming toddler outside to calm down.

In situations where I couldn't remove my screaming children from the situation (sometimes the grocery store, often the car) I would sing quietly. Singing kept my breathing even and steady, and kept my mind on something that wasn't anxious. It was often the ABCs / Twinkle Twinkle Little Star / Baa Baa Black Sheep on a loop, because I can remember those under pressure. 😂 I probably looked like a lunatic, but it helped me get through the situation without going mental.

The advice about keeping the bitey end away from your flesh is also sound. Old school horizontal haul-out under your arm works well.

HardbackWriter · 18/01/2022 09:25

IME, it gets better with practice. Talking about what we're going to do and get (or not get) before leaving the house and once more before going in the building sometimes helps.

I really agree with this - I realised that a lot of the issues we had were because I expected him to work out the 'rules' for a particular place by how other people are behaving, like that you don't shout somewhere quiet, which I guess is how adults know what they 'should' be doing in an unfamiliar place. But I realised that wasn't a reasonable expectation and things have got so much better (not 100%, by any means - he can be told the rules but not follow them!) since I've been really explicit about expectations. He can recite the rules for some places - e.g. in cafes (a place he loves, but that's because he's very responsive to being bribed with food) 'I talk in here but I don't shout and I have to sit on the chair'.

EatYourVegetables · 18/01/2022 09:38

My 3.5 has been screaming for 5 min now. The issue? She had pancakes with honey for breakfast and her Dad asked her to wash her sticky hands after. Cue screams about body autonomy, “No, YOU wash YOUR hands!” etc.

Swonderful · 18/01/2022 09:42

My son once had a tantrum in public that went on for 2 hours!! I don't think we dealt with it very well tbh because it was in the days when they told you to ignore tantrums. Well that didn't work!

He is now 15 and the sweetest, loveliest boy you could ever meet. (Ok I'm biased!)

Babdoc · 18/01/2022 09:46

Tantrums around age 2 to 3 are almost universal, OP.
I still laugh when I remember the brilliant mother I saw in a supermarket 30 years ago.
Her toddler was lying on the floor in the middle of the aisle, kicking and screaming blue murder.
Mum lay down beside him and started screaming too!
The toddler stopped, stared at her in amazement- then burst out laughing. Tantrum forgotten. I never quite had the courage to use her method, but by gum, it worked a treat!

MedusasBadHairDay · 18/01/2022 09:53

When DS was that age we took him on a trip in a glass bottomed boat to see the fish, within seconds of the boat moving off he decided he didn't want to do it anymore and had an enormous tantrum, of course the boat couldn't turn back as we weren't the only ones on it, so we had to suffer through his tantrum until the trip was over with the other passengers just glaring at us. It was mortifying, but we couldn't make him stop.

So yeah, totally normal OP.

stuntbubbles · 18/01/2022 09:55

Oh, yes, rules and expectations. My favourite recent tantrum was a whopping big fight about whether she was going to bring her harmonica to Sainsbury’s: she put up quite the campaign. “I just HOLD it not BLOW it. I won’t make noise cos it’s a SHOP. If I hold it on my mouth and it make NOISE, it’s an ACCIDENT. And accidents are OKAAAAAAAAAAAA-HOWL-WAIL-SCREAM.”

Restart10 · 18/01/2022 10:04

Gosh completely normal op!! She probably had a blast and just couldn't handle that it came to an end. Especially if it's the first time that she has been on one. My dd did something so similar at that age. When she calmed down we explained how it works. We also avoided the route if we knew it be too much of a hassle.

BertieBotts · 18/01/2022 10:28

It's shifted in a generation I think. Because we have a better understanding of what little children (up to about 3) are capable of, we give them more leeway and as a result tantrums below that age are pretty easily contained, avoided or distracted.

A generation ago you'd be encouraged to "nip it in the bud" using punishment/threats/ignoring at around age 2, which means much more fighting at that age with a child who is not developmentally able to control themselves (hence, terrible twos). These days it gets delayed a bit so you have the normal tantrums at age 1-2-3 and think no problem, I can handle these, easy. Then they get to 3, 3.5 and it all explodes everywhere because they are less distractible and (sometimes) because you haven't actually been setting boundaries but just distracting.

It sounds like what happened was:

She was tired, and hungry (you were about to go to lunch) so she has a low bar. It can help to avoid high-stress or high-excitement situations when she is tired and hungry, also you can keep hunger at bay with frequent snacks - this is a good idea on tired days. (Other things that can cause her to be near the "volcano limit" are being low on attention/connection from you, being bored, being overstimulated by TV or something very exciting or a noisy/crowded/bright environment, coming down with something, big changes happening in her life e.g. house move/new baby/new school etc.)

The transition (ending one activity, especially a fun one, and starting something new) was very hard for her as they often are for young children. However, younger children are very go with the flow and in terms of transitions they are momentarily upset but then quickly forget about it. (Think about how a baby cries when you strap them into a car seat, but are fine as soon as you get moving.) Three year olds get fixated on one thing and cannot move on from it until they have processed it. Whatever your distraction is will seldom be shiny enough (and if you get into the habit of ever-more-shiny distractions this can become a problem in itself). It can help to prepare her for the transition in advance, so explain before you even arrive at the place the sequence of events "We will go to the garden centre, you can ride on the car, then we will go to the till, then we will get lunch and come home." Remind her when she is getting on the car that the activity will end and what is coming next. Then give her a warning just before the end. I always find it helps to give a number as well so something like three more laps, or a choice e.g. if in a park, we have time for three more slides or five pushes on the swing, what would you like to do? When it is over, don't rush her away, give her (a little) time to get out by herself, but don't linger too long either. Maybe encourage her to say bye to the car, or something else she associates with endings, and remind her that you can come back another time.

When she was upset about leaving, you acknowledged her feelings (the car was fun) which is good but then tried to jolly her along to the next thing. This works really well with 2 year olds but stops working quite as well at this age because they get so fixated and because the feelings are overwhelming. There is not really a huge amount you can do if it explodes in a big way - you can spend a little longer with giving space to her feelings, giving wishes in fantasy (from HTT) but when she's tired and hungry on top then the best thing to do is just remove her from the situation to a safe place to calm down.

You don't need to be stricter in terms of punishing the outbursts etc. That likely won't help, but it might help if you are currently relying on distraction to avoid big feelings when you set a boundary, to read some of Janet Lansbury's stuff about boundaries. You mention her often shouting no or reacting to being told she can't do something etc, and I wonder if you've previously just been quickly moving on to the next thing when this happens and that is the part which isn't working any more. She has noticed that there are boundaries, and she is not happy about it! That's absolutely fine and good - it just takes a bit of a shift to get ypur head around supporting her through that.

hangrylady · 18/01/2022 10:41

My DD was the worst at 3, terrible twos didn't happen but at three there were some awful tantrums. My son never really had tantrums but would whine for England. All normal behaviour.

Goldbar · 18/01/2022 10:42

@stuntbubbles

Oh, yes, rules and expectations. My favourite recent tantrum was a whopping big fight about whether she was going to bring her harmonica to Sainsbury’s: she put up quite the campaign. “I just HOLD it not BLOW it. I won’t make noise cos it’s a SHOP. If I hold it on my mouth and it make NOISE, it’s an ACCIDENT. And accidents are OKAAAAAAAAAAAA-HOWL-WAIL-SCREAM.”
I love this Grin! Negotiating and tantruming at the same time. My DC would love to take lessons from your DD - they favour these techniques too!
ScrollingLeaves · 18/01/2022 11:02

Everyone is so relieved, OP, to see how many others are experiencing the same difficulties as you.

It is also heartening too to hear how many children who were like this grew up to be calm and happy.

HardbackWriter · 18/01/2022 11:09

I honestly think that @BertieBotts is the wisest poster on Mumsnet.

Goldbar · 18/01/2022 11:14

Yes @BertieBotts, really helpful view and advice and I'm definitely going to try to think about some of this in how I deal with my DC.

Hemingwayzcatz · 18/01/2022 11:23

Yep, this is totally normal. My DS is three and he usually screams whenever we leave the playground, library, softplay … basically anywhere he absolutely does not want to leave. I’ve had to carry him screaming down the stairs in a soft play before feeling like everyone was staring at me as I went. It’s a difficult age but does pass.

shouldistop · 18/01/2022 11:28

Do you give a 5 minute countdown when you're going to finish something fun? It helps them to feel more in control and warns them what's going to happen.
So "DD in 5 minutes you're going to come off the car and we'll go and do X"
"In 4 minutes you're coming off the car"
And continue each minute.
Then "DD you have 1 minute left of the car then we're going to do x"

She might still fuss when coming off but try to stay calm. "DD I know you're feeling upset as you were having fun but that's the 5 minutes up, let's go now".

If you do it each time you're finishing something then it really should get better. Stay consistent!

EllieSattler · 18/01/2022 11:29

Remembering with zero fondness the time then 3yo DD tantrummed so hard about not being allowed to bring home a toy from a playgroup that it took me forty five minutes and the help of two strangers to get her buckled into her car seat, while her newborn brother napped in his. She kept screaming for about another half an hour, while I wept at how hard everything seemed.

Now she's nearly 8 and incredibly pleasant and reasonable.

CaMePlaitPas · 18/01/2022 11:45

Honestly? This sounds totally normal OP.

Tunnocks34 · 18/01/2022 11:53

My eldest son was just like that, and it did stand out as his friends were very quiet boys, it was hard work tbh. We did lots of getting down to eye level, no shouting but stern. No giving in and natural consequences when needed.

My other two never reacted that way - I think it was just his personality? He’s a lot more sensitive than my others and does struggle when he has something else going on (tired/hungry) etc all seem to affect him more than others