What kind of fucked-up, dysfunctional workplace is our government operating in?

[noblegiraffe]

Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament? Can't get through the day without a suitcase of wine in Downing Street, drugs everywhere in Parliament? Subsidised bars on work premises?

I guess the fact that they tried to make an exemption for the bars in the Houses of Parliament when introducing a curfew for pubs should have been a warning sign that there's far too much reliance on alcohol in our ruling classes.

There was a lot of talk about standards in public life during the Owen Paterson scandal. Surely not being pissed or high on the job is a basic standard?

Aside from the issue that they couldn't even stop having massive piss-ups during lockdown, AIBU to think that something needs to be done to introduce basic rules like 'If you're not safe to drive, you're not allowed to vote in new laws'?

If you wouldn't be happy with a teacher teaching your kids half-cut and would expect rules to prevent this, why should we tolerate our government ruling the country while making their way through the contents of the wine fridge?

People have been posting 'oh yes, it's always been like this'.

Well it shouldn't be in future.

The whole first past the post system and set up in parliament need an overhaul. They are no longer fit for purpose - we have a bunch of public school boys yelling at each other from opposing benches whereas most of the rest of the world has proportional representation/single transferable vote and parliament chambers set up in semi-circles with desks and microphones and they actually look like they are trying to run their governments with one eye to the future rather than simply scoring points or lining themselves up for after dinner speaking gigs or a portfolio of directorships in a few years time.

@DeliriaSkibbly, the catering isn't subsidised. In the last financial year pre-Covid, the House of Commons accounts say that the income from catering services was £10 million, and the cost of the catering services was £2.6 million (the difference is probably staff salaries). That covers everything from sandwiches in the cafes to posh restaurants. God knows what's happened post-Covid, of course.

THe other things you mention aren't all reprehensible. There aren't many organisations that employ people from all over the UK and expect them to turn up in person for most of the working week. They're expected to live in the constituency, which means they need somewhere to be based in London in sitting times. You can argue that there should be some sort of central arrangement to avoid some individuals exploiting the scheme, but you can't seriously say that a person who represents Brecon and Radnorshire doesn't need somewhere to sleep in London if they've been in Parliament till 7.30 one evening and need to be back next morning, or that it's unreasonable for them to claim travel costs between home and London - it's not as though they can choose to live somewhere nearer. It's also not unreasonable for them to pay for staff - have you any idea how much constituency correspondence they get? The only ones who are now allowed to employ family members are the ones who were already employing them before the rules changed a few years ago.

Johnson's holiday is a different kettle of fish and unjustifiable and of course some of them are on the take. But I think they're underpaid for what's expected of them (and the salaries many of them could earn elsewhere).

A cup of coffee is 'frowned upon' why? Because it is hot or the caffeine? Respectfully, do you think that is reasonable or measured. It is one of the reasons I hate working in schools, the awful coffee and longlife milk, just general lack of perks, it's rubbish! But you know what I don't think I should lower my expectations accordingly and think that's the way the rest of the world should work as they don't!

^Just take the 'in' out of that sentence.
Johnson et al are trying to deflect and blame the civil service. Its not a civil service problem this country has.^

Oh interesting, by ‘dysfunctional workplace the government are operating in’ I meant Downing Street and Westminster. You don’t seem to be the only person who assumed I meant civil service, which is odd tbh as I don’t see the civil service as a workplace for government.

I remember office work back in the eighties and nineties, when it was commonplace to go for a drink or several at lunchtime and then go back to work, or not even bother going back to work on Friday afternoons. Unthinkable now. I expect that old boys culture still prevails in parliament.

It's clear the culture in Downing Street involves frequent drinking, but the real issue I feel is that when the rest of the country was under various levels of restrictions, none of those were observed by the PM and his closest staff. He was aware, responsible for the working culture, and lied then as he his now. Alongside this, the corruption and nudging contracts to party donors, the honours for favours and the communication by WhatsApp when the ministerial code is crystal clear about accountability. A culture of cover-up, rule-bending and rule-breaking, then deflecting and weasel words when found out.
Tory disgrace.

‘But I think they're underpaid for what's expected of them (and the salaries many of them could earn elsewhere).’

They’re not underpaid, as they knew exactly what they were signing up for. Most of them are greedy and are on the gravy boat with the expectation of future riches (sitting on company boards, back handlers/brown envelopes, honours from the Queen, book deals, etc, etc, etc…….

So, why did they not go elsewhere then???

@Goldenbear
Your dh doesn't have to drink at these meetings. Maybe they'd rather not drink either. It's a bit of a cliche to say i have to drink for work. I understand what you're trying to say but at the end of the day, those staff are public sector workers like me, we were also under a great deal of pressure, but we didn't break out the g&t at 5 o'clock. Neither did we toddle acrid the road to tesco for several bottles of wine. They were telling us we couldn't do what they went on and did themselves. My colleagues leaving do consisted of 10 of us standing 2 metres apart whilst someone gave a speech for 10 mins. These were people with 30 yrs service not a 1 yr !!! Ordinarily there would have been a tea party at work with maybe a night out later on. These are people involved in law making, that shut down the country. There was and is no justification for what they did.

I don't give a monkey's if journalists etc drink at work. And no, politicians drinking at a work event are not remotely the same as a teacher being drunk in charge of a load of children - that's a silly comparison.

The point isn't whether or not it's possible to do a good job and also occasionally drink alcohol at social occasions on your work premises (it obviously is possible). The point is that they are not above the law. The people making the rules during a pandemic should damn well stick to them. And if they get caught breaking them, heads should roll.

*bank handers (donors)

@Goldenbear

Last day of term for drinks with fellow parents we avoided cetain pubs as the teachers were there downing shots at 5pm at the end of summer term. It is all a bit awkward but ultimately they are people with their weaknesses just like any others. Obviously, this is not school time so different but I don't believe people who work in the public sector are any different to the rest of us.

What did I just read?

Bottom line - If you can’t manage your job/life without alcohol, you’re an alcoholic and should not be running the country.

Bottom line - If you can’t manage your job/life without alcohol, you’re an alcoholic and should not be running the country OR working with children.

@malificent7

Bet you they will win the next election though.

@malificent7

Exactly but people never admit to voting CONS so I dunno how they manage to get elected every time 😂

He doesn't 'have to' drink at work, I'm sure DH wants to but that doesn't make his behaviour 'shitty'.

You may not give a shit whether the media drink or take drugs but they're pretty powerful in how they can make a nation think and vote for instance and you should possibly open your eyes up to that if you are basing your judgements based on the information they provide you.

*back handers (donors)
(bloody predictive text!)

They way they have carried on is a disgrace. It also explains why the pandemic was basically an omnishambles. Every decision wrong. Everything delayed with lots of dithering. Imagine Maggie Thatcher carrying on like this during the Falklands War? I hope she didn’t!

BitterTits? I don't get it, why are you shocked, particularly with a posting name like that.

@Joystir59

I remember office work back in the eighties and nineties, when it was commonplace to go for a drink or several at lunchtime and then go back to work, or not even bother going back to work on Friday afternoons. Unthinkable now. I expect that old boys culture still prevails in parliament.

I was a civil servant in the same period - we got 45 minutes for lunch and it was done in shifts, so if you were late back, you were making someone else wait. Going to the pub at lunch time wasn’t an option because there wasn’t enough time. Not the same everywhere, obviously but I think a lot of the public seem to think civil servants had a cushy number and IME nothing could be further from the truth.

Any one want to start a petition to ban alcohol in the Houses of Parliament, the working areas of 10 & 11 Downing Street, and any other places where people take decisions about running the country?

I have a contract which says I can’t be drunk at work. Wouldn’t dream of it. Surely MPs and aides should have the same?

But for another, you don't need to send someone to get people when it's time to come back and vote. There's a bloody great bell that rings all over the estate. Plus most MPs who've gone back to their offices will have the debate on the tv in the background so they can keep across the arguments with half an ear and see when it's winding up

They used to have Parliament on the screens in The Red Lion too...don't know if that is still the case.

The consequences of drinking alcohol eg voting while under the influence are bad enough, but I agree that it's the utterly dysfunctional, chaotic, dishonest and morally bankrupt culture that is the main problem.

The utter contempt that the government holds ordinary people in and utter disinclination to stay fucking sober while they were managing a pandemic.

Although answering many of the bemused 'why did they do that?' questions about decisions made during the pandemic with 'because they were drunk and didn't give a shit' does actually provide a coherence that has been absent up to now.

@Goldenbear

BitterTits? I don't get it, why are you shocked, particularly with a posting name like that.

I think BitterTits was expressing her sense of confusion on reading the post, its meaning being pretty obscure. I don’t see the relevance of her name.

In what way is it 'obscure' apologies if not clear but I'm not an educated teacher.