What kind of fucked-up, dysfunctional workplace is our government operating in?

[noblegiraffe]

Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament? Can't get through the day without a suitcase of wine in Downing Street, drugs everywhere in Parliament? Subsidised bars on work premises?

I guess the fact that they tried to make an exemption for the bars in the Houses of Parliament when introducing a curfew for pubs should have been a warning sign that there's far too much reliance on alcohol in our ruling classes.

There was a lot of talk about standards in public life during the Owen Paterson scandal. Surely not being pissed or high on the job is a basic standard?

Aside from the issue that they couldn't even stop having massive piss-ups during lockdown, AIBU to think that something needs to be done to introduce basic rules like 'If you're not safe to drive, you're not allowed to vote in new laws'?

If you wouldn't be happy with a teacher teaching your kids half-cut and would expect rules to prevent this, why should we tolerate our government ruling the country while making their way through the contents of the wine fridge?

People have been posting 'oh yes, it's always been like this'.

Well it shouldn't be in future.

So you agree the subsidised bars should be removed from the Houses of Parliament, Clav? If some MPs drink too much, it clearly shouldn't be encouraged nor subsidised while in Parliament.

Whataboutery

There is no evidence that Sir Keir was drinking to excess

There is plenty of evidence that he is drinking regularly during the working day. There are numerous posts on this thread insisting that MPs should not drink at all during the working day - 'one drink is one drink too many'. You can't have it both ways.

Removing the subsidised bars from the Houses of Parliament would affect all MPs, Clav. Quite happy for Labour not to have access to them either.

That's not my position , clav. My position is the binge drinking and knees up culture is irresponsible .

noblegiraffe
So you agree the subsidised bars should be removed from the Houses of Parliament, Clav?

Possibly - perhaps Sue Gray could look into it.

Is this a good idea?

Donate a bottle: NHS and Key Workers wine
Simply buy this wine when placing your usual orders online, and we will distribute to ‘Frontline Workers’ through our contacts at Gloucester Royal Hospital, Gloucestershire Constabulary and Gloucestershire County Council.

www.vinotopiawine.co.uk/nhs-and-key-workers-special-wine

@Piggywaspushed

It is such whataboutery to point to other work places with a drinking culture. That kind of Old oy Network/ machismo is what is wrong with so many metropolitan (especially London) workplaces. It leads to a culture where people - largely men- bounce from Bullingdon Club, to the City, or journalism , to Westminster. It is entitlement. It discourages and inhibits people not from that kind of culture working in those places and those workplaces, not coincidentally, are rife with workplace bullying. It mitigates against family life. It shuts out many women . It is obnoxious and exclusive.

When we get it in government, exclusivity, entitlement, drunken behaviour, boorishness, and flagrant rule breaking is everything leadership (especially of the country) should not be.

I don't see how insurance brokers doing the same thing makes any difference. Insurance brokers are not leaders of society.

Lots of workplace had more minor versions of this kind of piss up culture in the 80s and 90s. Most no longer do.

^ This 100% WTF is is with people coming on and saying "everyone in London is routinely pissed"? I will vote for anyone who promises to clean up this total shitshow at the heart of government.

@WinnersDinner

Peregrina
My experience is that the work sanctioned drinking slowed in early 90s and had pretty much died by 2000.

Mine too.
You've already stated you retired a while ago

Your experience therefore is severely out of date

++++

From my own experience I would also agree that the work drinking culture had died out by the early 2000s.

A large number of companies I do business with have random drug and alcohol testing, usually done first thing when you come into the office. Indeed one very large company I do business with has a standard Drug and Alcohol Clause which states that the other party must also perform random testing of all its employees if they want to do business with this company.

If anyone in my line of work suggested "going for a couple glasses of wine or a couple of pints at lunchtime " then they would be regarded as some kind of 1980s throwback , unprofessional and frankly a bit of a joke to be avoided.

Possibly - perhaps Sue Gray could look into it.

I would prefer the committee for standards in public life. Sue Gray needs to focus on the lockdown-breaking parties.

Piggywaspushed
That's not my position , clav. My position is the binge drinking and knees up culture is irresponsible.

But you think it's absolutely fine for Keir Starmer to be photographed drinking alcohol 'at work' on 22 April, 23 April and 30 April? Bearing in mind that he also entered a pub on the 19 April but the landlord 'threw him out' for political reasons - no doubt he would have drunk another pint there as well.

[quote 1dayatatime]@WinnersDinner

Peregrina
My experience is that the work sanctioned drinking slowed in early 90s and had pretty much died by 2000.

Mine too.
You've already stated you retired a while ago

Your experience therefore is severely out of date

++++

From my own experience I would also agree that the work drinking culture had died out by the early 2000s.

A large number of companies I do business with have random drug and alcohol testing, usually done first thing when you come into the office. Indeed one very large company I do business with has a standard Drug and Alcohol Clause which states that the other party must also perform random testing of all its employees if they want to do business with this company.

If anyone in my line of work suggested "going for a couple glasses of wine or a couple of pints at lunchtime " then they would be regarded as some kind of 1980s throwback , unprofessional and frankly a bit of a joke to be avoided.[/quote]
Again, I quite frankly give negative shits what your experience is

As I've mentioned and listed, I work with many companies in and across the country, the vast majority have some form of drinking opportunity at work (80-90%)

I'm simply stating the basic fact that drinks at work isn't just a Downing Street thing, it's actually quite common place esp in London and other large cities.

It's actually becoming more popular, the office fitout company I work with for our business is often saying bars and mini fridges are becoming so popular they have had to increase their supply over the last few years.

no doubt he would have drunk another pint there as well.

Or got blind drunk and started a fight.

Give over.

@Piggywaspushed

winners, your list , obediently provided , doesn't make things better. At least three of those companies treat their most junior employees like shit. The fact that they are boozing away at the top whilst they would sack a warehouse worker for drinking is part of the problem with corporate culture. The fact that corporate , boys' club culture still dominates parliament and government is not a good thing . Your attempts to spin it are rather laughable.

I'm not attempting to spin anything

I was asked for names

I provided the ones I could be bothered to list

If you honestly think many scale up business in London don't have some form of work drinks you're deluded and out of touch

Someone I know has already cast doubt on one of the companies on your list encouraging drinking at work, therefore I remain unconvinced as to its accuracy.

borntobequiet

Just to be clear - you would have no problem with Keir Starmer drinking a pint of beer every day at work?

No wonder the country is in so much of a state. Didn’t sniffer dogs indicate they had sniffed cocaine in the loos at Parliament recently?

Imagine if doctors, nurses, paramedics, care assistants, police officers, lorry drivers etc all carried on like this?

I never said they didn't winners.

@Clavinova

borntobequiet

Just to be clear - you would have no problem with Keir Starmer drinking a pint of beer every day at work?

Congratulations Clav - you win the award for most extreme and ridiculous (and consistent) daft whataboutery.

Sad story here - 2015;

A respected Labour MP died after drinking a deadly quantity of Polish spirits during a fact finding trip to Europe, an inquest has heard.

Former Heywood and Middleton MP Jim Dobbin consumed a powerful shot of spirit with each course during a meal to mark a political visit last September.

The 73-year-old backbencher was sent to bed by colleagues to “sleep it off” after complaining of feeling ill, however his wife Patricia, who accompanied him on the Council of Europe trip, raised the alarm after struggling to wake him during the night.

Following his death a post-mortem found that the MP had a blood alcohol level of 399mg per 100ml - nearly five times the UK legal drink drive limit. Rochdale Coroner’s Court heard how Mr Dobbin never drank at home and only did so socially, according to the Manchester Evening News.

The trip, which was also attended by former Deputy PM John Prescott and Labour MP Alan Meale, to the city of Slupsk was in honour of it being awarded the council’s 2014 for “promoting the European ideal”.

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/popular-mp-jim-dobbin-died-during-european-trip-after-drinking-polish-vodka-9993581.html

www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/drink-driving

There is no failsafe way to tell how much alcohol will put you over the limit, or to convert the BAC limit into how many units you can have: the concentration of alcohol in blood depends on various factors. These include your weight, age, gender, or how much you have eaten before drinking. That’s why the only safe amount to drink if you’re driving is nothing at all – not a drop.

For anyone who has somehow missed the past few decades of public safety information on drink driving.

Blimey Clav, that is an exceptional display of barrel scraping.

FS whatever Tory bots are on here trying to deflect and throw muck at Keir Starmer and Labour MPs who have been dead for 6 years - go back to your paymasters and tell them its not working. Its making Johnson look worse. Its a terrible strategy and the people coming up with it are either stupid or desperate.

No political party should be drinking at work. This isn't an anti Boris thread.

The bots are out in force today, there is one snuffling around on Pedants' Corner.

The bots are out in force today

Bots? Don't be ridiculous.