Quite a lot of better off people would be happy to pay more tax?

[Echobelly]

Provided it was channeled towards things like NHS, social care, education.

It seems weirdly outdated to me that mainstream political parties find raising taxes on the wealthy anathema. We've been living in such a low-tax society for so long, but households like mine (I'd say it's a 6-figure annual income between us) could easily afford to pay more in tax and still enjoy our lives.

But instead parties are obsessed with recouping money by removing benefits for the poorest people, which is stupid as the difficulties resulting from plunging people into greater poverty, as well as being cruel, will ultimately cost more money than it saves.

Take that money off people like me in taxes! We won't become homeless or sick or suffer mental distress for the sake of a bit more tax. Year after year I see budgets that will apparently save people like me £500 a year, as if this is supposed to be an incentive to vote for the Tories but tbh, I won't even notice being better off by £500 a year. Give that saving to someone for whom it'll make an impact!

It doesn't matter who is in power, Tory, Labour, anyone else, these inefficiencies persist across them all.

As the saying goes: "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in."

Why do you think that so many departments are still spending a fortune on "Equality, Diversity & Inclusion Advocates" at £70k/year? The Civil Service runs the show.

@DdraigGoch

It doesn't matter who is in power, Tory, Labour, anyone else, these inefficiencies persist across them all.

As the saying goes: "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in."

Why do you think that so many departments are still spending a fortune on "Equality, Diversity & Inclusion Advocates" at £70k/year? The Civil Service runs the show.

Do you not think women and different races should be helped then?

I found one job for that in the NHS... £43k p.a.

CS carries out the policies of the Govt in power, how else do you think we went from Labours 4% p.a on the NHS to 1% and Austerity for 11years under the Tories.

There are so many better alternatives available (none of which is the US btw). It’s obvious from the fact that nobody has emulated it. The difficulty will be switching to a more agile and responsive system while ensuring treatment remains universal and more hcp’s are trained

Exactly! the only real way is to fund the NHS so it can provide decent cover, then reform to best practice... unfortunately, what happens is the reform bit happens with little extra funding.

Several EU countries follow the NHS model of a tax funded model, Spain. Portugal, Italy, NZ and even Germany is finding that social insurance model is rely more on tax, as does the Scandinavian HC models.

Also, these systems have been funded for many years at a higher level than the UK and rate preventative healthcare far more importantly too.

Do you not think women and different races should be helped then?

The £70k one was for the CPS. I have little confidence that women and minorities actually benefit from appointing someone to one of these roles. In fact, these policies are often putting women at risk (see the FWR board for more detail).

The Civil Service are quite capable of obstructing government policies when it suits.

I wouldn't be against the idea, once I'd seen an overhaul in the way our taxes are spent. But let's not get back to the old days of 90/95% taxation.

The NHS is efficient because lots of cost gets shoved into other budgets. Particularly the criminal justice system. Or people just dying from particular backgrounds.

For example: we have higher rates of stillbirth than many other Western European countries. And thats stacked up in particular groups.

If babies from particularly vulnerable backgrounds aren't born then they don't exist later on.

Scotland has the lowest life expectancy in Western Europe.

We have a particularly extreme difference between life expectancy in the richest areas of the country and the poorest. This also translates into quality of health whilst living, with those in the poorest areas being sicker for longer.

There is also a three-year gap between the North East (77.6 years) and the South East (80.6 years).

Think about that.

Is the NHS good value?

I think it depends on whether you have access to care. Public health which is preventative is bad in the uk and getting worse.

Life expectancy has dropped during the pandemic but he had already stalled before it hit.

Question: Just how much money would it take to have a 'properly funded NHS' ?

What would a 'properly funded' NHS look like do you think?

.
Anyone who has to take their pet for veterinary treatment has to pay and gets a shock at the cost of meds and as for anything surgical......

I'm shocked you think we live in a low tax society

@rookiemere

I pay more tax already as I live in Scotland. Naively when it was first introduced I was happy to do so. I can see no discernible difference between education, NHS or anything really as a result of this extra funding. Lots of SNP propaganda though. In theory extra tax is an appealing idea. In reality it puts people off earning more and generally hits the squeezed middle class rather than the genuinely rich.

This. Our schools are atrocious, nhs is a joke in most areas, everything is underfunded. Roads are becoming destroyed and a danger.

We need better people in power who won't 'lose' money quite so often.

@roarfeckingroarr

I'm shocked you think we live in a low tax society

Are you really shocked? Or is that just a neoliberal rhetorical device.

newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project

A town in New Hampshire was run on ultra liberal, low/no tax principles. They slashed the town budget by 30%.

They were over-run by bears. Actual black bears.

The point being it takes money and effort and engagement and co-operation to run a way of life where people can flourish.

Not utopia, just not be attacked by bears.

@Sort0f the UK isn't a low tax society, the above poster is quite correct. The UK is roughly average among the OECD.

I pay over 100k in income tax and NI. I really sincerely think that I am doing my bit and would resent paying more.

Relative to its peers (ie rich countries with Western culture), I think the UK is neither a high tax country nor a low tax country, but somewhere in between, which is probably a good thing.

However, the UK is probably somewhat below the middle on tax take, definitely somewhat below the middle on healthcare spend, and most importantly, it taxes income from work more heavily than income/gains from capital. While that is probably true everywhere, the skew in UK seems high enough to be unfair.

Before anyone suggests it, I am not going to personally write a voluntary cheque to HMRC. I am not remotely close to well off enough to make a difference on my own in that way. But, I am more than willing to vigorously support policies that would lead to a fairer, which means moderately higher, tax burden on all owners of capital, in order to provide better social services without further raising tax rates on work. I would also support policies that involve removing or reducing certain tax breaks that are disproportionately helping high earners, be it earnings from capital or earnings from work.

It's highly unfortunate that the only options in recent times have been Tories (blame it all on foreign immigration, then hold lockdown parties for chums) Labour-Corbyn (owners of capital are morally bad people who should be punished for it), Labour-Starmer (not sure what he actually thinks about anything), or Lib Dems (could not win an election if it were handed to them on a plate).

@Sort0f thanks for leading me down a black bear rabbit hole, I've ordered the book. But we don't have bears here - or scary laws around guns - and my point remains that income tax, NI, stamp duty, council tax, energy taxes, VAT, IHT are vast when combined.

I am not an unreasonable person, I would like to help people one on one or to known help-group. However, I work hard and scarifice things for the money I get paid, I am happy that I pay almost 50% tax but I will not be very happy if I pay anymore.

I am working hard and nit just casually plucking from money tree. I hope it wont slowly become a disadvantage to earn more.

Contractors and bussiness make a lot of money and pay minimum wage taxes.... dodgers should be targetted not the ones who are paying their fair share already

I'm honestly not sure!
I am a higher rate tax payer (only just) and I am a single parent.
I earn too much to get child benefit.
I work hard for my money & have to pay for wrap around childcare to enable me to keep my job.
I do not have spare money, and no savings should things go wrong.
I have a modest mortgage on a basic semi-detached house that could do with a lot of work; bog-standard 6yr old car; staycation once a yr in a caravan pre-covid.
However, I do appreciate that I am in a better position than many; instead of Christmas cards we do a foodbank big shop; all clothes/toys etc go to smaller/local charity shops or worst case air-ambulance clothes recycling bins...
I would rather increase that than pay more tax into a corrupt system.