Quite a lot of better off people would be happy to pay more tax?

[Echobelly]

Provided it was channeled towards things like NHS, social care, education.

It seems weirdly outdated to me that mainstream political parties find raising taxes on the wealthy anathema. We've been living in such a low-tax society for so long, but households like mine (I'd say it's a 6-figure annual income between us) could easily afford to pay more in tax and still enjoy our lives.

But instead parties are obsessed with recouping money by removing benefits for the poorest people, which is stupid as the difficulties resulting from plunging people into greater poverty, as well as being cruel, will ultimately cost more money than it saves.

Take that money off people like me in taxes! We won't become homeless or sick or suffer mental distress for the sake of a bit more tax. Year after year I see budgets that will apparently save people like me £500 a year, as if this is supposed to be an incentive to vote for the Tories but tbh, I won't even notice being better off by £500 a year. Give that saving to someone for whom it'll make an impact!

This is on the curriculum throughout primary, every year.

The odd cooking lesson isn't enough imo

There can't be anyone in the uk who doesn't know what they need to do to keep their bodies healthy.

Lots of people don't know how to cook though & struggle to make better choices.

don't think asking schools to bin something else to carve out more 'healthy eating' time is going to solve much tbh.

I think education is key & lots of dc don't get that at home re health. I'm not just talking about healthy eating, a healthy mind is really important imo.

@twominutesmore

The Laffer Curve demonstrates how raising taxes can lead to reduced tax revenue. Beyond a certain %, a % perceived as 'fair', taxpayers begin to alter their behaviours to legally avoid paying tax.

In my view, the Laffer Curve only becomes relevant for marginal tax rates above 60%, which makes it irrelevant for most UK taxpayers.

Aside from the 60% band between ~£100k and £125k, which is an anomaly that warrants correction, the top UK marginal income tax rate is 45%. Add something for National Insurance and you're still well below 60%.

For unearned income the rates are even lower: 38% on dividends (being increased somewhat higher in 2022/3), and 20% for realised capital gains (or 28% on capital gains from investment property) plus there is less or no National Insurance added to that.

There is a fair argument that it's much easier to avoid realising unearned income than to forgo (for example) a salary increase, and also people who don't work could more easily move out of UK if that tax rate were to go too high. So, the revenue-maximising tax rate on unearned income may well be lower than 60-70%. But I believe there would be scope to increase the taxes raised by doing things like raise the rate of CGT to a certain extent, and also to remove some legal tax-avoidance strategies aka close some loopholes.

"The odd cooking lesson isn't enough imo."

Well no. I'm talking about the PE, Science and PSHE curriculums.

I haven’t RTFT but if you want to have e.g. Scandinavian levels of public funding it’s basic rate tax you need to increase, not higher rate taxes. So if everyone is happy to pay a basic rate of 30% tax as opposed to 20% tax we’ll be getting there.

I’d be happy to pay more tax once they’ve taken a lot more money off those with multi-million pound estates, multiple houses, 500k+ salaries, etc. Not before though.

Oh, and once we have a government I trust to spend it properly rather than giving it to their mates or pissing it up the wall.

So basically never I guess.

@blueshoes

*Absolutely not. Higher earners already pay close to 50% on tax. Why do people keep spouting this bollocks? Unless you're that PP who weirdly insists on in including employers NI this is simply untrue, except as a marginal rate.*

Splitting hairs.

It is close to 50%. I did not say 50%. It is certainly 55% at the top rates. Even if it were 60%. The message is the same. What is wrong with including NI. This thread is about paying for the NHS, unless I missed something.

No it isn't - you need to understand what you are actually paying before trying to claim it's 50% when it isn't.

I have no objection to including NI, just not EMPLOYERS NI as a PP was trying to - since that (the clue is in the name) isn't paid by employees.
You pay 20% tax on a significant proportion of you income. As I said, the 50% is a marginal rate.

@Mountaingoat12

I haven’t RTFT but if you want to have e.g. Scandinavian levels of public funding it’s basic rate tax you need to increase, not higher rate taxes. So if everyone is happy to pay a basic rate of 30% tax as opposed to 20% tax we’ll be getting there.

Does your calculation include NI?

Well no. I'm talking about the PE, Science and PSHE curriculums.

As I said I don't think enough is being done in schools. You can disagree though.

amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/13/richest-britain-income-tax-revenues-institute-fiscal-studies

The top 1% of income earners (300k people) now pay 30% of all income tax.

You don't need many of these people to either leave the country or find a way to "reduce " their tax liability before you have a real problem on tax revenue for the country.

@1dayatatime

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/13/richest-britain-income-tax-revenues-institute-fiscal-studies

The top 1% of income earners (300k people) now pay 30% of all income tax.

You don't need many of these people to either leave the country or find a way to "reduce " their tax liability before you have a real problem on tax revenue for the country.

Boo fucking hoo!

Research from the 80's onwards and internationally show the vast majority don't leave their country of origin because of hi taxes.

We have some of the lowest taxes for the wealthy in Europe plus a raft of loop holes, such as none or low tax on investments and dire rates on property plus off shoring.

Where do you think they would all go?

No I'm not willing to pay any more tax. Not while so many big businesses get away with paying next to nothing.

Er no thanks. But all you have to do is put your kids in private school and have private health care and you're taking pressure off education and NHS services by not needing them without dragging the rest of us into paying even more tax for the government to waste.

Nothing below 20?

Should read “between 12 and 20”

YABU

Might get flamed for this but as a 'better off' person I wouldn't be happy to pay more tax, nor would any of my friends, co-workers etc.

If this were true tax avoidance wouldn't be a 'thing'

We already pay more towards services we don't use, we have fully private health cover, never used an NHS hospital or service since beginning work, and send the kids to Independant schools. So no why would I want to pay more towards it, when the government piss so much away.

There are now a record 171 billionaires in UK, with their wealth rising 21.7% during the pandemic to £597.2bn

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57199171#:~:text=There%20are%20now%20a%20record,pandemic%20to%20%C2%A3597.2bn.

So a 1% billionaires tax would raise £60 billion, enough to transform the NHS.... and thats before we even look at the 1000s who have '00s of millions in assets.

We already pay more towards services we don't use, we have fully private health cover, never used an NHS hospital or service since beginning work, and send the kids to Independant schools. So no why would I want to pay more towards it, when the government piss so much away

Have a serious accident or illness and you'll go to an NHS hospital, regardless of your wealth and who trained/paid for those nurses, teachers and doctors you use?

I would not at all be happy to pay any extra tax on my income. In fact I would be furious.

I'd like to see more tax on inherited wealth, and for the government to crack down on large companies like Amazon.

But also (and more importantly) I'd like to see tax better managed. Less crony-ism, less shitty management of NHS. Less bloody awful test and trace failures.

I feel like the tax we have would go a long way if used adequately.

@Alexandra2001

"We have some of the lowest taxes for the wealthy in Europe plus a raft of loop holes, such as none or low tax on investments and dire rates on property plus off shoring.

Where do you think they would all go?"

++++

Well for a start a number of these 300k are non UK nationals / dual passport so could return to their home / other countries, others could simply become non UK resident, others could adopt legal tax reduction actions. My point is with there only being 300k individuals you only need 30k people to do the above and you've lost 3% of total income tax revenue.

That said I agree with you on the loop holes. If you want to increase taxation it is better to go for assets rather than income as it's harder to hide / avoid. Also the current inheritance tax threshold of 1 million is ridiculous and harms social mobility.

And this is where the money gets spent.

The top 1% of income earners (300k people) now pay 30% of all income tax.

That's too simplistic though

@Alexandra2001

We already pay more towards services we don't use, we have fully private health cover, never used an NHS hospital or service since beginning work, and send the kids to Independant schools. So no why would I want to pay more towards it, when the government piss so much away

Have a serious accident or illness and you'll go to an NHS hospital, regardless of your wealth and who trained/paid for those nurses, teachers and doctors you use?

Serious accident I won't as we live close enough to private urgent care facilities.

Illness potentially however as stated, since I've started work I've not stepped foot in an NHS operated facility.

Compare to those who pay a whole lot less than me in tax it's grating.

I'd be fully for a 100% US care model too. Most would have access to far better care than the NHS provide.

We have private healthcare but would always go to NHS for emergency

I wouldn't be happy to pay more tax. I do everything I can to legally avoid tax. I pay for childcare out of gross salary, and put the maximum amount into my ISA.

I'd be willing to pay whatever it takes in fair taxes to stop the NHS being privatised.

Serious accident I won't as we live close enough to private urgent care facilities.

That's unusual though isnt? private urgent care for a critical issue.