Was I in the wrong regarding overtime situation? Don't like what the staff tried to do

[Donthaveagoodusername]

I'm employed by an agency and currently on a long term placement at a nursery. My shifts are 8-5, or 9-6, but usually 8-5.

According to staff here, pretty much nobody leaves on time as it has to be based on staffing numbers for children, I get it but it's not fair on the staff. People are on the rota to finish at 4 but end up staying until 6:30 a lot of the time, and they are paid £8.91 an hour. I don't really know why they put up with it but it's easy for me to say.

I don't mind doing it on the very odd occasion if staff go home sick or whatever but I'm not prepared to do it on a regular basis. 10 minutes is one thing, not 2 hours.

The other night I stayed an extra 30 minutes for them. I also have another part time evening job which I have to get to and that night I did.

So today I was on 8-5 and I told them this at 8am (the nursery staff in my room). So they knew the staffing situation from 8am.

They must have been talking about me as one of them asked 'so what's your other job?' even though she wasn't there when I had told them about it.

Today about 2pm one girl said (yes I call them girls as some are 17-19 years old) 'Oh btw do you have to get to your 2nd job tonight?' I said no how come, do you need me to stay later? And she said 'no no just wondered'. Hmmm.

Anyway I'd heard one was on until 6:30, the other 2 until 4:30 but the 17 year old cannot stay late due to being underage.

So the other girl makes comments like 'ooh well I'm supposed to go at 4:30 but I might have to stay until 6'.

Nobody at any point has asked me to stay later. Then it gets to 4:25 and the girl says 'oh we only have 8 kids so I can go now, have a great weekend guys!' I realize it would just be 2 of us until 6:30 even though I'm meant to be on until 5.

So I say 'sorry but I cannot stay past 5, I haven't been asked and it's too short notice, I have got plans'.
Then the girl says it's fine, yet I see her and the other one give each other that pissed off sort of glance.

So I figured they were just planning to let me stay 1h30 extra without even asking or telling me at all. Just assuming I will do it probably as I'm agency and I'm quiet. I'm not putting a stranger first, especially one who does that to me. I don't force her to do overtime.
I think I was assertive and hopefully did the right thing? If someone had asked me earlier on and been honest that's different, but they said nothing.

Imagine I'd had a flight to catch or something (I don't but for example). I'm worried this will keep happening.

I'd speak to the manager but if she expects daily overtime then she isn't much of a manager

Also I am not working 8-6:30 with one 30 minute break. There will be people who get even less I'm sure but that's beyond my limit

Hi! Could you clarify: is this paid or unpaid overtime?

I honestly don't know if it is paid or not

@Flowers500

Hi! Could you clarify: is this paid or unpaid overtime?

Both shit obviously but it makes a major difference

I'd like to hope it's paid but nothing surprises me

It isn't that she isn't much of a manager, she just expects flexibility. Did you have plans after 5, or were you proving a point? Just say that you need more notice to stay late and perhaps tell them your availability at the start of each week.

I would get on the phone to ACAS asap and talk this through. If this is unpaid it's taking you under minimum wage (probably) and needs some serious shite raising (including with MP etc as necessary).

If it's paid then it's a bit more complex, you're essentially on a zero hours contract by the sound of things? Unfortunately I'm not up to date on the current situation with that legally, ACAS or Citizens Advice would be well placed to support on that?

I think there's flexibility and then talking the piss.
What if you have appointments etc or kids to pick up ?
I do have plans and I'm not losing them for someone who clearly wanted to take advantage of me
My agency has put me down for 9 hours a day max, I will have to speak to the agency if it keeps happening

It's zero hours yes, but if I'm told 8-5 then I plan for 5, not 5 but maybe half 6. Surely not all nurseries are like this?
It's not even that, it's how those girls just tried to be sneaky about it and thought I'd put up with it

The way nursery staff are treated like this is criminal. They can’t leave the children unattended, obviously, so management lean heavily on the most amenable. The fact you’re agency is handy. Just tell them you don’t want to go back to this place cos they’re bullying you. The industry is crying out for staff. You’ll have a new job by 8am Monday!

Slightly different but when I worked in hospitality this always happened to me. I worked in hotel's where there always had to be a Duty Manager on. Sometimes I would do 7am-3.30pm but the next DM would call in sick or something and I'd be forced to do a double (next shift was 3pm-11.30pm) if they couldn't get someone else to come in. Only some managers could be DMs as you had to have special training (ie fire, first aid, food handling/safety etc) so it wasn't like someone else could just take the keys and the hotel wasn't allowed to run without a DM there...so we were forced to stay or risk losing our jobs (would definitely be sacked if left the hotel without a DM even if it wasn't our fault). Was always unpaid but said to be time owed even though we never got the time back either.

I think people will absolutely take the piss unless you force their hand. Either point blank refuse or make a complaint in writing that you are being left to cover shifts without any prior warning.

@Donthaveagoodusername

It's zero hours yes, but if I'm told 8-5 then I plan for 5, not 5 but maybe half 6. Surely not all nurseries are like this? It's not even that, it's how those girls just tried to be sneaky about it and thought I'd put up with it

What I'm saying is that both situations are shit but you need to know which it is--one is out and out criminal, the other more complex. How you deal with this will depend on which one it is

So you not happy in either of the jobs your agency give you.

I'm confused, who asked you to stay late? The manager? Or just the girl leaving at 4:30?

I agree with you . Stick to your guns. No issue with staying if I'm asked but if it's assumed I'm off. Manners cost nothing

That's awful.. my partner works in hospitality too and this has happened to him. Either that or they'll tell him to finish 4 hours early as they're quiet but then he won't be paid for that

You're right we just have to be very assertive
I am very very glad I'm agency and not employed by that cesspit (not the children at all, but the treatment)

The whole staffing sounds a mess to be honest - they’re not rostering enough staff to meet the ratios. I think I’d take it up with the manager, and if they don’t sort it then I’d run a mile.

@vodkaredbullgirl

So you not happy in either of the jobs your agency give you.

?

Nobody asked me to stay. They didn't even ask. They just tried to walk out so I would have to stay an extra hour and I half but I pulled them up on it

How does your agency work - are you on an hourly rate and do you have to send in a timesheet so that you're paid for the hours you actually work? I guess the other staff may think you get paid for "overtime" and therefore it makes sense for you to do it - but they should still ask you rather than assuming.

I’m sorry you don’t get paid for working 2 hours overtime every day ? And you mention they are your then honestly don’t know any better first job usually. I worked somewhere years ago was early 20s the others were teens we was expected to work overtime every night I quit after 2 weeks . The other younger staff didn’t know any better and thought that’s what working life was like it isn’t . I’d start looking for another job and you need to clarify you are getting paid for these extra hours too .

On an hourly rate yes, higher than theirs but because my umbrella company takes so many fees out I end up with minimum wage net salary

It was the sneakiness all day 'soo what's your other job?'

'soo do you have your other job Tonight, just wondering?'

** your - younger