Was I in the wrong regarding overtime situation? Don't like what the staff tried to do

[Donthaveagoodusername]

I'm employed by an agency and currently on a long term placement at a nursery. My shifts are 8-5, or 9-6, but usually 8-5.

According to staff here, pretty much nobody leaves on time as it has to be based on staffing numbers for children, I get it but it's not fair on the staff. People are on the rota to finish at 4 but end up staying until 6:30 a lot of the time, and they are paid £8.91 an hour. I don't really know why they put up with it but it's easy for me to say.

I don't mind doing it on the very odd occasion if staff go home sick or whatever but I'm not prepared to do it on a regular basis. 10 minutes is one thing, not 2 hours.

The other night I stayed an extra 30 minutes for them. I also have another part time evening job which I have to get to and that night I did.

So today I was on 8-5 and I told them this at 8am (the nursery staff in my room). So they knew the staffing situation from 8am.

They must have been talking about me as one of them asked 'so what's your other job?' even though she wasn't there when I had told them about it.

Today about 2pm one girl said (yes I call them girls as some are 17-19 years old) 'Oh btw do you have to get to your 2nd job tonight?' I said no how come, do you need me to stay later? And she said 'no no just wondered'. Hmmm.

Anyway I'd heard one was on until 6:30, the other 2 until 4:30 but the 17 year old cannot stay late due to being underage.

So the other girl makes comments like 'ooh well I'm supposed to go at 4:30 but I might have to stay until 6'.

Nobody at any point has asked me to stay later. Then it gets to 4:25 and the girl says 'oh we only have 8 kids so I can go now, have a great weekend guys!' I realize it would just be 2 of us until 6:30 even though I'm meant to be on until 5.

So I say 'sorry but I cannot stay past 5, I haven't been asked and it's too short notice, I have got plans'.
Then the girl says it's fine, yet I see her and the other one give each other that pissed off sort of glance.

So I figured they were just planning to let me stay 1h30 extra without even asking or telling me at all. Just assuming I will do it probably as I'm agency and I'm quiet. I'm not putting a stranger first, especially one who does that to me. I don't force her to do overtime.
I think I was assertive and hopefully did the right thing? If someone had asked me earlier on and been honest that's different, but they said nothing.

@FrippEnos

goawaystormy

I see what you are saying, I apologise.

But although they are similar situation the OP is agency and much more expensive.

But it seems like the regular worker was trying it on.

OP being agency and more expansive is none of their concern. They aren't management, they don't deal with money, if management don't want OP doing overtime they have to say.

How exactly was leaving at her assigned shift time, when all the kids were cared for and ratio's covered, trying it on?

I don't understand people saying did you check with the others etc. The OP is not paid as a manager and therefore it is not her job to ensure that there are enough staff for a shift. Why isn't the manager dealing with this each day rather than having staff tiptoe around each other to see who can stay. You do the hours you are contracted to do for this job and don't feel bad about anything beyond that. Too many places abuse people like this and, unless you stand up for yourself, will continue to take advantage of you.

Not sure being cheeky about overtime makes it a ‘cess pit’ OP but YANBU to refuse to do the overtime, especially when they don’t even bother asking.

well the advice to call ACAS etc is too nuclear. Just chat to the manager, people tend to be reasonable and misunderstandings are common.
That's unless you are not telling us the whole story of course.
Zero hours contracts are very flexible on both sides, you dont have to work if you dont want to.

Is this a Busy Bees by any chance? Absolutely standard practice when I worked at one, no one was ever able to leave on time.

goawaystormy

How exactly was leaving at her assigned shift time, when all the kids were cared for and ratio's covered, trying it on?

Because it isn't the OP's problem to sort out an din the long term it would benefit the person that works their to sort it with the management.

@FrippEnos

goawaystormy

How exactly was leaving at her assigned shift time, when all the kids were cared for and ratio's covered, trying it on?

Because it isn't the OP's problem to sort out an din the long term it would benefit the person that works their to sort it with the management.

But it isn't the other staffs problem to sort either. In the moment her job was done and it was safe for her to leave.

In the long term she might be on the cusp of leaving this shit working environment.

Stop blaming other people who are equally victims of a shit employer. The only people trying anything on are management!

Nurseries run quite significantly on the goodwill of their staff but this is outright taking advantage of people.

I run a small setting and I do rely on people being as flexible as they can but by that I mean covering sickness when we are struggling or staying on an extra 10 minutes if a parent is running late. I keep it to a minimum.

I am adamant that staff are paid for the hours that they work if we cant afford that then we cant afford to run.

Management know how many children they have booked in and they know what the ratio's are the hours you describe aren't "overtime" that's them not covering their opening hours.

When everyone is treated shit, people often start taking it out on each other rather than the ones actually on charge of the situation unfortunately. Sounds like youre not the only one fed up with never being able to leave on time. I wonder why they dont change the work finish times so its not always last minute.
You really do need to clarify that youre being paid for all this overtime

You owe them nothing but your contracted hours. Small businesses such as nurseries are notorious for this kind of thing. They run on minimum staff, who are mostly young and don’t have the confidence to challenge their employer. I’ll bet overtime is not paid, and because no one seems to be flagging it as an issue, management are just going with it. If I was you I wouldn’t worry about what the others do. Just do what you’re paid for, unless someone has the courtesy to approach you in good time to ask you to work over, and that it’s actually paid overtime too.

OP, how many jobs do you have

• the carer job where they are treating you badly
• the teaching job where they treated you badly
• the nursery job where they are treating you badly

You have the resilience of an ox

Why did no one go and knock on the manager's door (assuming he/she was in the building) at 4.30 and point out that by 5pm there wouldn't be enough staff there? They would then have to come out and step in or ask one of the staff to work longer, taking it out of the hands of low-paid staff?

Ask for a different job. The whole industry is in crisis. You'll have a new placement by 8am on Tuesday. It being the weekend. Otherwise it'd be Monday.

Where is the manager or deputy manager during the day? Someone should be on site and in charge. If neither can be there there should be a trusted senior staff member who can deal with or contact management.

Our staffing isn't always perfect if someone goes off sick or if extra children come in but it's always sorted out who will stay and if nobody can the manager or myself will cover. We would never have that kind of issue happening and sounds really crazy as reliant on good will which isn't a safe way to deal with ratios.

Thanks for all the replies

Someone asked if there is a canteen, there is a staff room which is essentially a box room, and it's quite a large nursery with 5 rooms, so there's not enough room for all the staff and those in there have to sit very huddled up, no personal space at all and not COVID compliant whatsoever. I don't think 30 min break is sufficient for a 9 hour shift and certainly not for 10.5 hours

Agree with a pp who obviously recognises your style of thread. You have zero luck with any of your jobs and you seem to always beable to assert yourself!!

If I was 430 worker I'd have walked out when my shift finished and the ratio was safe. I'm guessing she didn't want her colleague to be dropped in it by having you leave her lone working. You're agency loosing any overtime information is for you've chase up. You need to reduce your hours as this will keep happening.

Management sounds utterly shit. But this isn't your problem to solve. The permanent staff need to have a talk with their manager. And perhaps whistleblow to some of the parents...

But they will just put up and shut up, by virtue of being inexperienced teens... There's a reason why staff is so young. I bet staff turnover in that place is sky-high.

It is a minimum of 20 minutes' break if you work more than 6 hours, which can be unpaid. www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work You do seem to repeat the same errors though, and allow yourself to be taken advantage of. Be more assertive. If asked you say you are rostered to leave at 5 and can stay no longer.

My Dh was in a situation like this. He was the single supervisor of a care home that was chronically understaffed and the senior management wouldn't recruit. There were weeks he literally lived there, only coming home to shower and change, because he couldn't let it go under ratios or it would be on his head. Thankfully he was able to be a on site sleeping on-call so there was a staff bed. He also was salaried so all he could claim was TOIL which was laughable since he barely got his basic days off.

The relief when he left was immense but he missed a lot of our son's first year because of it.

When your shift ends call the manager into the classroom and tell her how many children are left anything else relevant to the children, then get your coat and leave waving a breezy goodbye and “see you tomorrow!” If she protests tell her you didn’t get any message about staying late so assumed she was covering ratio from your finish time. Then leave.

10.5 shift should be 15-20 min morning break, 45 min lunch break, 15-20 min afternoon break. I'm in the nhs and a 12 hr shift is a morning break and 2 meal breaks. I still think that there should be someone designated to stay till 6:30 if needed, especially if you have other responsibilities after work. Leave this post and make sure both the agency and management know why.

After receiving my first pay.. I'm on £11.50 an hour, 36 hours over 4 days with a 30 minute unpaid break each shift. I came out with £258 net for 34 hours of work on £11.50 an hour, being massively ripped off aren't I ?

It's true that 20 minutes is the legal minimum for over 6 hours but I still think that 30 minutes for 9+ hours is stingy, could be 45.
Do agree that I've made mistakes re my assertiveness, but hopefully last night I was assertive in refusing to stay late

That does not sound correct net but your tax situation may be complicated by your other jobs. Have you had a payslip explaining deductions?