Women @ work

[notstacysmum]

Name changed for this in case it becomes a bun fight. I have my hard hat on.

I am a senior manager within a public sector org- I've been in my current role for 4 month and I lead a corporate service; think HR, finance, business improvement etc. I am a massive advocate for women at work and have two daughters... BUT...

I absolutely despair at the vast majority of women at work who don't have basic digital literacy skills and have no enthusiasm for learning them. In the few months I've been in post three members of my team - all female- have failed to grasp basic excel skills needed to manipulate and present reports. They don't have any interest in doing things differently or thinking on their feet. We've implemented a new system they can't get their head around, they give advice on policies from 2 years ago because they "forgot" there was a new one. They leave on the dot every day - which isn't an issue really but they spend the last 15 minutes of every day getting ready to leave and clock watching! I feel like I'm constantly banging my head against a brick wall and I'm at a point where I'd rather replace them all with apprentices because I have to hand hold them on simple tasks. I have two men in my team who take everything in their stride and lead on every project. My department has a long standing reputation of being a bit shit that I've been tasked with turning around- their performance is part of the negative feedback.

These women aren't all menopausal (I accept some are) and this isn't just my team- I hear it from other management colleagues, from friends who don't know how to use even basic office software, I've worked for a long time and it's only ever been female colleagues who behave like this (don't get me wrong- there's been some shit men too but they tend to be over promisers!).

I feel like such a shit feminist to say this but if I could swap them for a team of men I would.

AIBU to think this is probably a gender specific problem (#notallwomen)? WIBU to raise their mediocreness with them?! They haven't done anything differently to the last 15 years and I don't think anyone has ever told them so it's not all their fault but I can't see how else they will change!?

What kind of money are these women on op? If they're entry level admin on minimum wage I can understand them not wanting to dedicate their life to the job.

@tiredanddangerous

What kind of money are these women on op? If they're entry level admin on minimum wage I can understand them not wanting to dedicate their life to the job.

This is a good point.

Honestly it sounds as if no one has managed them effectively. So manage them.

I would bet my last pair of pants that none of these women is earning anywhere near what you are op (or what you would pay their male counterpart.

Sounds to me like you are not very good at recruiting or tailoring a role to the right demographic.

And you will be in HR. I'm guessing you're Head of HR and love nothing better than running down junior female colleagues to your senior male colleagues.

WTAF comment about menopausal?

How fucking ignorant are you? Sorry not sorry.

Change management clearly ain’t your thing. Hope whoever recruited you knows that!

@notstacysmum

PP who suggests it's a public sector problem may be right. Most of my experience is in private sector.

They've had training, and support. They just don't get it - and don't want to.

You need to approach this by first praising what they are doing right, and then talking to them about what needs to be improved. Make sure they have access to, and use, the appropriate training materials. If you have addressed the issue and they continue to miss the mark then you need to formally discipline and/or terminate. It's really not that complicated. I have a feeling it's your overall approach that is wrong.

Menopause isn't a barrier to being competent in Excel. I'm five years post-menopause and I'm fairly decent at it. I'm also usually the one who reminds everyone else there's a new process/policy out!

In my last team the meh bc we’re shot. One couldn’t spell, was lazy, spent all day ducking around. Would ask my questions and
I’d say ‘have you looked at the system’ (most info could be found by a simple search. He hadn’t bothered, I found myself doing his work and spoon feeding him alongside mine. The other one joined in the ducking around whilst trying to sleep with anything with a pulse (he was hot and funny so a lot of the younger girls found him’lovely’ I’ve met his type a lot) at my work the majority of mangers are women.

I'm choosing to believe all of these sexist work threads lately are by a single troll.

Disgusting as always.

This is a public sector problem. There are probably other departments in the same “company” which have the same issue but maybe with more men than women.

You are managing 3 women you have concerns about and on that basis you decide this is a women's issue? I think you need to go on some serious equality training. You are not fit to be managing anyone until you have addressed your bias.

Firstly, criticising your employees four months in isn’t great. Secondly @Ciaobaby’s post is great. Don’t just put them on an Excel course, give them low level excel tasks daily, then more intermediate. Once they practise regularly they will pick it up. I’ve learnt a dizzying amount of software packages over the past five years, as well as coding, new apps etc. Even with this when I look at new technology it’s like gazing into an abyss. A whole universe of extremely complicated, technical stuff. You said they’ve done the same thing for 15 years. They are probably terrified of new technology. So, you have to get them over that and show them it’s actually similar to use Excel and you can create really cool charts and graphs using the spreadsheet data with a click of the button. I’ve taught someone terrified of technology and there is a trick to it. Cheerful- don’t worry they make it as simple as possible then drill it over and over until it’s second nature. Calm, patient, good tempered help as they struggle. The problem is, not many people want to take that time to do that.

Simpler not similar

It seems your place of work, where you hold a senior role, has not trained and ensured the staff are up to date. Staff have been permitted to pack up early instead of working to the end of their contracted hours. This isn't because your staff are female. This is because your managers aren't managing.

This is a public sector problem.

I work in tech but my boss is a dinosaur - male pale and stale.... and honestly i could have written most of your description here about my boss and one male coworker.

Me and the other fairly senior woman do all virtually all the donkey work. Formatting decks, coordinating calendars, sending follow ups, closing the contracts, making sure all the admin is done. We have to stay on top one processes and examine it to them, watch company post and policy changes and break it down and debrief them.

Even sharing screens when presenting client decks!!! my boss has actually said that we are just "so much better" at it than him and my male counterpart 😑

I work in the NHS , it's more the male HCPS who are more like this can't be arsed learning to use the new system or teams. One said in a meeting I have an assistant helping me that was me !! I've seen people typing with one finger making report writing take an age. I've wondered how they can get by with such poor digital literacy ?

Stop feeding the troll, people!

arrange excel courses and enrol them.

You're brave OP. Dh and I run our own business. We've got a small team of full and part timers and I'd say it's far more down to personality than sex. Some phone in sick at the 1st sign of illness, others have to be sent home half dead because they've still come in. Some are there an hour before they start; others are persistently late. Some ignore the clock and just do what's in front of them, others put their tools down 15 minutes before the end of the day and faff about clockwatching. It's sometimes hard finding the middle ground so everyone is happy and can brush along together.

And you will be in HR. I'm guessing you're Head of HR

Head of GF I think.

Since we’re sharing anecdotes, OP. The women in my team are brilliant at excel and apart from a couple of men, the rest aren’t great. I update my digital skills for fun, including various types of coding, even though I don’t work in tech.

Our former manager, also a man, was even worse than the current ones.
It’s definitely not a gender specific issue.
You must get out more to discover brilliant things women are doing with basic tech skills and beyond.

You (supposedly, assuming you actually exist) work in the public sector which is not exactly known as as a meritocracy.

Some of your staff are shit. Quelle surprise.

Stop trying to extrapolate from a sample size of five, and just do your job.

As their manager you can insist they learn these new skills. I’m a public sector worker and yes there’s women in my team like this, lower grades, but plenty of men the same, so I think maybe more the staff you have. Many women leave on the dot to collect children too, which they inevitably have to do despite many families having 2 parents capable of doing it

What does menopause have to do with it?

Come on op you know you can make sweeping negative generalisations about men at will here. But of course you cant do the same about women.

I despair at it skills in the UK. I write software in both c++ and python but am amazed at the lack of basic coding skills in the UK.

I don't think this is a women or men thing but rather a typical British public sector problem that is so outdated. I've worked in a couple of countries (public sector roles) and there is a totally different attitude towards work. Yes everyone finishes on the dot, yes there's no weekend tasks, yes everyone gets their lunch and holidays etc but there's a attitude where you have to keep up or you get left behind and eventually pushed to do scut work if you're behind. Also training to be innovative was highly invested in the places I worked and all the department gets sent to these training events.

The roles are advertised as 'officer' or 'executive' and you don't have a detailed job spec like in this country or a specific job title. You enter a department rather than a role and then get assigned to a specific role the manager sees fit which aligns with your experience. So if you enter a communications department and if you are lacking performance or the training isn't paying off, the manager can push you to just liaise with the stationary suppliers and there's nothing you can do about it. Some may argue this is also a shitty way to manage but those that are left behind because they are incompetent in their roles you often cannot fire them anyway. The manager can change your role/team completely or weed you out but still use you to keep you useful in the department whether it's just opening doors all day.