Page 4 | Covid fine refunds

phishy · 14/01/2022 13:14

When did I say Boris shouldn't be fined? I specifically said I think everyone at those parties should be fined as well.

This is very facile thinking.

When rules are not followed by those who made them, they become meaningless.

Fining Downing Street is meaningless, I would want to sue the fuckers.

Jaxhog · 14/01/2022 13:16

Everyone who attended the government parties should also be fined but anyone who got fined at the time knew what they were doing.

This. They are all equally guilty.

canary1 · 14/01/2022 13:21

Either all their fines refunded ideally, or Boris and do to pay a much larger amount.
The Tory party are liars and thieves 😡

gettingolderandgrumpy · 14/01/2022 13:28

If you don’t think people should be refunded then do you think Boris and his cronies should be arrested and fined ? . If your argument is people can’t ask for a refund then why aren’t all people that break the laws fined. ?
Yabu to say drink driving is the same as breaking a covid rules .

doublemonkey · 14/01/2022 13:36

@stripeyflowers

There just seems to be a large amount of cognnitive dissonance going on:

though people consider the government to be liars and hypocrites who preach one thing and do another, they will lambast anyone who questions the main narrative or chooses to disobey those very same 'masters' on account of they don't actually believe what they are saying.

Why don't people get this?

ancientgran · 14/01/2022 13:40

@Joined4this

Surely the point is not one of those privileged people who attended the many “work events “ is going to get fined and the police have already confirmed this, having “not noticed” multiple get togethers.

That is the real problem isn't it. I can't understand what the Met are up to.

ancientgran · 14/01/2022 13:42

I suppose if Boris got fined he'd just get someone else to pay it so wouldn't really bother him. Maybe community service? Get him to do some litter picking in Hyde Park or something.

ancientgran · 14/01/2022 13:48

[quote Bunnyfuller]@Aderyn21

You do know the police don’t get to decide what investigations are taken forward and what ones not right? Not only will it be decided at Cressida Dick level (who may be police, but she’s no longer a ‘cop’) but threshold, gatekeeping legislation and ultimately CPS are the deciders. The big question that has to be answered (legally) is is investigating this in the public’s interest, and it looks at risk of the offence, risk of the offence being repeated, evidence available and cost benefit ratio of assigning resources for the investigation.[/quote]
I can't see why the investigation would cost much. They've admitted the "gatherings" happened, the apology from No 10 to the Queen makes it pretty clear. All they need to do is write to No 10 asking for the names of the people who attended, like they write and ask a vehicle keeper who was driving the car when it was doing 70 in a 40 mph zone. Easy.

liveforsummer · 14/01/2022 13:56

What about the 2 women who met for a distanced walk but were fined because they brought take away coffees so it was classed as a gathering due to that. I'm sore that was around the time the rotors were partying, or the single woman who offered some childcare to another single parent and was accused of holding a party. Yes they should be refunded

Original poster

girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 14:00

@liveforsummer

What about the 2 women who met for a distanced walk but were fined because they brought take away coffees so it was classed as a gathering due to that. I'm sore that was around the time the rotors were partying, or the single woman who offered some childcare to another single parent and was accused of holding a party. Yes they should be refunded

The two women who met in the park had their fines quashed

OP posts:

VikingOnTheFridge · 14/01/2022 14:01

The police were told to fine as a very last resort - ie if people argued and refused to comply. Don’t blame the police for following the orders the government gave them.

Unfactual comments like these are why the police are losing the public’s support

You surely must know it often didn't work out that way though?

The reality is that police issued fines for things that weren't crimes. Police told a man he wasn't allowed to be in his front garden, threatened another with making something up, told two women their cups of coffee amounted to a picnic, tweeted about checking people's shopping trolleys and lots more. The behaviour of some police during the pandemic, even in the context of poor legislation, has damaged public trust.

liveforsummer · 14/01/2022 14:12

The two women who met in the park had their fines quashed

Good, what about the 2 single parents who were fined for a 'party' because one provided childcare and they had a no one with snacks. Quashed too I hope along with many other similar examples (that you seem to be arguing against)

VikingOnTheFridge · 14/01/2022 14:15

The reality is that we have no idea how many fines with no legal basis were issued and paid quickly because the recipient was scared or overwhelmed or just wanted an easy life. The system, that Johnson and his government designed, was flawed. As was the legislation they implemented.

Original poster

girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 14:19

@liveforsummer

The two women who met in the park had their fines quashed

Good, what about the 2 single parents who were fined for a 'party' because one provided childcare and they had a no one with snacks. Quashed too I hope along with many other similar examples (that you seem to be arguing against)

I never heard of that one. I'm not arguing against examples. People have made valid points here.

OP posts:

stripeyflowers · 14/01/2022 15:50

@doublemonkey

I wish I knew. It makes no sense at all.

A4513 · 14/01/2022 15:55

The reality is that we have no idea how many fines with no legal basis were issued and paid quickly because the recipient was scared or overwhelmed or just wanted an easy life.

Indeed.

Most of my adult life i would have been too scared, law abiding or vulnerable to resist the police abuse of powers that we heard about on a daily basis during lockdown.

now?

i have more time and £s at my disposal to fight this sort of thing, and i'd happy "waste" £££s fighting this abuse in a court than just automatically paying. because if those of us with a bit of spare cash (not oodles, but some) don't fight, and we just pay up, it makes a mockery of the whole justice and legal system. it isn't right that poor people or those without the knowledge of how to work the legal process are abused, and yet that's what's happened.

stripeyflowers · 14/01/2022 15:56

@A4513

The reality is that we have no idea how many fines with no legal basis were issued and paid quickly because the recipient was scared or overwhelmed or just wanted an easy life.

Indeed.

Most of my adult life i would have been too scared, law abiding or vulnerable to resist the police abuse of powers that we heard about on a daily basis during lockdown.

now?

i have more time and £s at my disposal to fight this sort of thing, and i'd happy "waste" £££s fighting this abuse in a court than just automatically paying. because if those of us with a bit of spare cash (not oodles, but some) don't fight, and we just pay up, it makes a mockery of the whole justice and legal system. it isn't right that poor people or those without the knowledge of how to work the legal process are abused, and yet that's what's happened.

I agree with you. No more.

Viviennemary · 14/01/2022 15:57

I think the fines should be refunded and they should sue.

stripeyflowers · 14/01/2022 15:59

In a way I thank the 'pandemic' as it has made me stronger person, someone who will say what they think whether it will be unpopular or not, who has realised that rocking the boat and being disliked is a better option than agreeing and appeasing and stuffing down your true beliefs and feelings.

Wreath21 · 14/01/2022 16:05

Plenty of fines given out to the public have been overturned already - and rightly so. The police were overstepping their authority enormously in issuing most of them, and advice I heard and was sharing with everyone else was: if they try it on, refuse to pay and insist on it going to court. Also worth noting how disproportionately fines were applied (white and wealthy, trot off with a warning; poor/black/young - pay an enormous sum of money. Can't afford it? Never mind, we'll send bailiffs round.)
So anyone who was intimidated into paying should immediately apply for a refund and for their conviction to be overturned. This bullshit was extortion, pure and simple.

jamandmarmaladethesecondcoming · 14/01/2022 16:10

They can't refund the fines.

It's been spent on cheese and wine

Svara · 14/01/2022 16:29

The politicians should be fined but fixed fines just mean it's a law for the poor anyway. Link fines to income so they hit the middle class and rich just as hard.

jamandmarmaladethesecondcoming · 14/01/2022 16:31

...and wallpaper

neverbeenskiing · 14/01/2022 16:42

Everyone who attended the government parties should also be fined but anyone who got fined at the time knew what they were doing.

This. They are all equally guilty.

You're missing the point. The Police have said they don't intend to investigate the downing street parties, they've said that it's not a criminal matter. So if the ministers and senior civil servants boozing it up at parties aren't guilty of any crime then "normal people" are right to argue they shouldn't have been criminalised for breaking lockdown rules either.

VikingOnTheFridge · 14/01/2022 16:47

@neverbeenskiing

Everyone who attended the government parties should also be fined but anyone who got fined at the time knew what they were doing.

This. They are all equally guilty.

You're missing the point. The Police have said they don't intend to investigate the downing street parties, they've said that it's not a criminal matter. So if the ministers and senior civil servants boozing it up at parties aren't guilty of any crime then "normal people" are right to argue they shouldn't have been criminalised for breaking lockdown rules either.

Exactly. Correct that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, but as we already know there'll be no investigation and thus no sanction into the No 10 breaches, the only way for that to happen is for all fines to be refunded. Even then the stress and upset can't be taken back, but it's as close as we can get.

I think also OP probably started this thread without an understanding of how flawed the whole covid regs enforcement system was. It's really nothing like driving offences.