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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Covid fine refunds

104 replies

girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 08:27

AIBU to think that people asking for their covid fines to be refunded are being ridiculous?

They still breached the rules.
Everyone who attended the government parties should also be fined but anyone who got fined at the time knew what the were doing.

People don't ask for their drink driving fines to be paid back because famous people are caught doing that too.

OP posts:
Ikona · 14/01/2022 10:10

@girlmom21

I think Boris and Co should be fined for every breach of the rules, using the scale that they initially introduced and without the 'pay within 7 days' reduction.
I think it's £200 for the first fine up to £1000 for subsequent breaches isn't it?

Definitely! I'd happily see any cap on the amount you can be fined lifted as an exception for Boris though!

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/01/2022 10:11

@Aderyn21

It's a pretty basic principle of UK law that you can't retrospectively apply changes.

Uk law seems to be getting rewritten every 5 minutes according to the whims of the government. This is why people want their money back!

Agreed - this government/HMRC has used retrospective law changes, 100% backed by senior government folk like Jesse Norman. They don't have any respect for our constitutional conventions.
neverbeenskiing · 14/01/2022 10:25

When did I say Boris shouldn't be fined? I specifically said I think everyone at those parties should be fined as well.

But they're not going to be fined. That's the whole point.

The Met Police have said they don't even intend to investigate. So people who have previously been cautioned and fined by the Police for the very thing that the Police are now claiming isn't a Police matter are, quite understandably, asking for those decisions to be overturned.

If a group of 30 people drinking champagne in the garden of No 10 downing street during lockdown isn't illegal then a group of 30 people drinking cans of lager in the garden of a terraced house in Hull during lockdown can't be illegal.

doublemonkey · 14/01/2022 10:25

@BooksAndGin

YABU.

We was only allowed one person in a garden to meet up with, yet Downing Street had over a 100.

Therefore the virus couldn't be as bad as they made out, and they weren't worried about passing it on. So yes they should be refunded as it's obviously been blown way out of portion.

Also the police won't chase the government for fines - so again YABU. Why should Bob down the street be fined but not Boris and his coke head mates?

This.
DrManhattan · 14/01/2022 10:26

They won't be fined. He won't resign or be sacked. No one cares.

VikingOnTheFridge · 14/01/2022 10:30

@neverbeenskiing

When did I say Boris shouldn't be fined? I specifically said I think everyone at those parties should be fined as well.

But they're not going to be fined. That's the whole point.

The Met Police have said they don't even intend to investigate. So people who have previously been cautioned and fined by the Police for the very thing that the Police are now claiming isn't a Police matter are, quite understandably, asking for those decisions to be overturned.

If a group of 30 people drinking champagne in the garden of No 10 downing street during lockdown isn't illegal then a group of 30 people drinking cans of lager in the garden of a terraced house in Hull during lockdown can't be illegal.

I'd be interested to hear Rees Mogg's views on that point given that he's said, correctly actually, that if the garden gathering in May was illegal then the law was wrong. It logically follows that he should support the righting of that wrong. There is of course the wider point that the time for him to make that argument was when sitting as part of the government that made those rules, but still, better late than never.
Topseyt · 14/01/2022 10:32

@A4513

YABVU.

The police were heavy handed and abusing their powers during huge chunks of lockdown. I'm a law abiding citizen and was shocked at how the police dealt with people for the most innocuous of behaviour - huge inconsistencies and heavy handed approach, ridiculous.

Good on people challenging their fines, many of them should never have been issued in the first place and relationships between citizens & the police have surely been damaged as a result.

Politicians taking the piss on top is just another kick in the teeth.

This is my take on it, and the very reason why I think that all lockdown fines issued to the general public are questionable and should be refunded / cancelled.

Boris Johnson and co. however, should be made an example of. That might be cloud cuckoo land though. Surely we can't expect our actual lawmakers (American word for MP, but appropriate here nonetheless) to abide by the laws that they make!! 😉🙄

A4513 · 14/01/2022 11:25

If a group of 30 people drinking champagne in the garden of No 10 downing street during lockdown isn't illegal then a group of 30 people drinking cans of lager in the garden of a terraced house in Hull during lockdown can't be illegal.

Exactly. The police are confirming again, with this, that laws only apply to some people - i.e. vulnerable people, outside of thepublic eye, with no power to resist or fight it in court.

The police are grossly abusing their power by refusing to investigate further on this.

You can't just decide at this scale that (in theory) my garden party is illegal and i should have been fined, but Boris was fine.

Fuck that. I can't believe there isn't more pushback from citizens at the abuse of power coming from politicians and the police on these things.

Shocking and i hope history will judge them accordingly for it, the corrupt fucking lot of them.

Aderyn21 · 14/01/2022 11:30

A fine means nothing to Boris monetarily - he should have to pay in proportion to his wealth imo. Or pay the fines of every person present at that party since the buck should stop with him!

CaptaNoctem · 14/01/2022 11:40

As it was the law makers who were breaking the law whilst fining the rest of us for much smaller breaches, absolutely all convictions under that law should be quashed.

The police have to have been well aware of what was happening - No10 is surrounded by them and noise carries but it's easier to fine a couple of women, walking along carrying a takeaway coffee under the guise they are having a picnic.

Aderyn21 · 14/01/2022 11:42

Things like this are why the police are losing community support - one sniff of power and they absolutely take the fucking piss.

stripeyflowers · 14/01/2022 12:00

@Mrsjayy

Downing street was like a private members club they love a party whilst telling everyone that they could kill a pleb person if they had people in their garden or strayed too far from home, no wonder people are angry !
Yes, people are forgetting the fear mongering and incendiary rhetoric of 2020.

I don't forget that my 89 year old father in law was suffering with cancer and other ills and we had to 'care' for him from the back garden.

If you'd have told people that in 2019 they would have been horrified at such a cruel regime.

I think some people's tolerance is like lycra; it just keeps on extending and extending to accommodate.

Bunnyfuller · 14/01/2022 12:11

@girlmom21

AIBU to think that people asking for their covid fines to be refunded are being ridiculous?

They still breached the rules.
Everyone who attended the government parties should also be fined but anyone who got fined at the time knew what the were doing.

People don't ask for their drink driving fines to be paid back because famous people are caught doing that too.

Celebrities who get caught drink driving are punished when they’re caught. Apparently if you’re part of this government you don’t.

Anyone who ignored the rules was a selfish twat, but in light of what is emerging now I think it’s criminal they even told the police to fine people.

Bunnyfuller · 14/01/2022 12:13

@Aderyn21

Things like this are why the police are losing community support - one sniff of power and they absolutely take the fucking piss.
The police were told to fine as a very last resort - ie if people argued and refused to comply. Don’t blame the police for following the orders the government gave them.

Unfactual comments like these are why the police are losing the public’s support.

Aderyn21 · 14/01/2022 12:16

The police didn't always understand the rules and some forces were very quick to fine. It's simply not true that the police always fined as a last resort. And people are entitled to argue if the police were wrong.
And the police are 100% responsible for not administering the law fairly since they won't even investigate the Downing St parties!

Isaw3ships · 14/01/2022 12:18

I wish they’d get a list of attendees of the Downing Street parties and fine them, starting with the PM.

Mrsjayy · 14/01/2022 12:18

stripey socks. Having to care for somebody who was so Ill is barbaric what an awful thing to go through.

Mrsjayy · 14/01/2022 12:21

From the garden* sorry

Bunnyfuller · 14/01/2022 12:32

@Aderyn21

You do know the police don’t get to decide what investigations are taken forward and what ones not right? Not only will it be decided at Cressida Dick level (who may be police, but she’s no longer a ‘cop’) but threshold, gatekeeping legislation and ultimately CPS are the deciders. The big question that has to be answered (legally) is is investigating this in the public’s interest, and it looks at risk of the offence, risk of the offence being repeated, evidence available and cost benefit ratio of assigning resources for the investigation.

OMG12 · 14/01/2022 12:48

Of course their fines shouldn’t be cancelled they broke the rules. Everyone who attended rule breaking parties at Downing Street should also be fined. Any police officers there who didn’t apply the law should also be investigated.

StoneofDestiny · 14/01/2022 12:57

You break the law you take the consequences. The problem many have is that if you are in the Tory Party or work for them, there are no consequences.
These parties would have been 100% known to the police. Nothing held in a high profile government building would have gone unnoticed - and recorded on CCTV.
The police are being made to look corrupt by this government - or they simply are corrupt.

stripeyflowers · 14/01/2022 13:01

@Mrsjayy

stripey socks. Having to care for somebody who was so Ill is barbaric what an awful thing to go through.
Yes. Of all the things that anger me about this whole debacle, that is the one thing I can never forgive. He died in 2021 - that was precious time together, forever lost.
StoneofDestiny · 14/01/2022 13:07

You do know the police don’t get to decide what investigations are taken forward and what ones not right?

But the police can arrest people and shut down illegal events - as they did to many parties, gatherings, wedding receptions, funeral wakes at this time. I think I recall they actually entered a church during a service to shut it down!

JacquelineCarlyle · 14/01/2022 13:09

@AlexaShutUp

I see their point. The people who were making the rules that caused them to be fined weren't actually following those rules themselves. I'd be fucking furious tbh.

Don't get me wrong, I followed the rules myself and think that they needed to be enforced. But I cannot blame anyone for challenging a law that has been so unequally applied.

I agree with this.
stripeyflowers · 14/01/2022 13:09

There just seems to be a large amount of cognnitive dissonance going on:

though people consider the government to be liars and hypocrites who preach one thing and do another, they will lambast anyone who questions the main narrative or chooses to disobey those very same 'masters' on account of they don't actually believe what they are saying.