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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Covid fine refunds

104 replies

girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 08:27

AIBU to think that people asking for their covid fines to be refunded are being ridiculous?

They still breached the rules.
Everyone who attended the government parties should also be fined but anyone who got fined at the time knew what the were doing.

People don't ask for their drink driving fines to be paid back because famous people are caught doing that too.

OP posts:
Original poster
girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 09:35

@Ikona

I don't think their fines should be refunded, but Boris and co should also be fined, possibly even more given his status. It's people who broke the law being annoyed at other people who broke the law - none should get away with it imo, but the ones who haven't been held accountable should be, ASAP.
I think Boris and Co should be fined for every breach of the rules, using the scale that they initially introduced and without the 'pay within 7 days' reduction. I think it's £200 for the first fine up to £1000 for subsequent breaches isn't it?
OP posts:
Sockwomble · 14/01/2022 09:39

Some people were fined when they weren't breaking the law but because some police officers didn't understand the law.

Popcornriver · 14/01/2022 09:39

This isn't famous people caught breaking the rules, it's the rule makers breaking them.

Howshouldibehave · 14/01/2022 09:39

I think Boris and Co should be fined for every breach of the rules, using the scale that they initially introduced and without the 'pay within 7 days' reduction

Absolutely. But I think the people who are suggesting that fines are reimbursed are assuming (based on all of the other things that seem to get quietly dropped) that the ‘independent’ enquiry by Sue Gray will drop the whole thing.

If this does happen, how do you think all those people who were fined will feel?

Original poster
girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 09:40

@Sockwomble

Some people were fined when they weren't breaking the law but because some police officers didn't understand the law.
And those people should get their money back. I'm talking about the people who openly admit they knew what they were doing was wrong/illegal but want their money back because the rule markers have done it too.
OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 14/01/2022 09:41

I think Boris and Co should be fined for every breach of the rules, using the scale that they initially introduced and without the 'pay within 7 days' reduction.

They should be fined in accordance with the law as it stood at the time of the offences. It's a pretty basic principle of UK law that you can't retrospectively apply changes.

Original poster
girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 09:43

@Howshouldibehave

I think Boris and Co should be fined for every breach of the rules, using the scale that they initially introduced and without the 'pay within 7 days' reduction

Absolutely. But I think the people who are suggesting that fines are reimbursed are assuming (based on all of the other things that seem to get quietly dropped) that the ‘independent’ enquiry by Sue Gray will drop the whole thing.

If this does happen, how do you think all those people who were fined will feel?

I do think it'll get dropped. That was the reason for Boris' piss poor admission of guilt and 'apology'.

JRM has said he thinks the rules were ambiguous so they were innocent mistakes because some people thought they were abiding by the rules.

It's bollocks but they're playing dumb in the hope that their actions come across as incompetent rather than illegal.

Realistically, they're both.

OP posts:
VikingOnTheFridge · 14/01/2022 09:44

@Wankerchief

Remember the two women fined for drinking coffee on a bench?

Yeah….that was fair and just.

The met police were quick to fine women but not the entire fucking party of gammon that was at a place where officers stand outside of all day

That one did actually get dropped, just as well as it was ridiculous. But plenty didn't, and Derbyshire police were issuing fines with no legal basis until those two bravely kicked up a fuss.

If I'd been fined I'd certainly be fucking furious at this point. And I do think there's going to be some comeback from this. I'm not sure there is a mechanism for people to challenge fines they paid now, but give it time.

Sockwomble · 14/01/2022 09:44

I agree that someone having a party in their house should still be fined. Those that got fined for driving 5 miles for a walk should get their money back.

Aderyn21 · 14/01/2022 09:44

It's a pretty basic principle of UK law that you can't retrospectively apply changes.

Uk law seems to be getting rewritten every 5 minutes according to the whims of the government. This is why people want their money back!

MorningStarling · 14/01/2022 09:45

Generally fines were issued to idiots who blatantly broke the regulations. The fact that this drip drip drip of what happened at Downing Street is occurring the best part of a year or two suggests that the breaches were not all that blatant.

I have no sympathy for people who got fined for breaking the rules. You could have just stayed at home.

anon12345678901 · 14/01/2022 09:50

YANBU. They broke the rules so it's right to be fined as Downing Street should be. They can't say they broke them because DS did as they didn't know at the time. They thought themselves above the rules and rightly got fined for it. I'm not talking about people walking, I mean parties, shops opening in lockdown etc.

Sockwomble · 14/01/2022 09:53

"I have no sympathy for people who got fined for breaking the rules. You could have just stayed at home."

In first lockdown I started taking my severely autistic son for drives and then back to his regular walking places because he wasn't coping. I was always worried about being stopped by a police officer who wouldn't understand. I know lots of people with similar children were thinking about distressed their child needed to be before they would justified in doing similar and how they would explain it to the police. Whereas Boris and his pals were partying on.

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/01/2022 09:55

I think after these revelations, Bozo should repay them out of his pocket. It’s too costly to differentiate between the accidental and deliberate breaches.

Cornettoninja · 14/01/2022 09:57

I’ll reserve my answer until we have an official line in what is/isn’t going to be done about the downing st parties.

I can see peoples line of thinking but it’s a bit premature. It’s looking like it’ll be increasingly difficult for this to be brushed under the carpet but then nothing this cabinet manages to wriggle out of surprises me anymore. Sir Allen’s resignation over Priti Patels bullying should have received far more attention than it did, if your ethics advisor feels they can’t work with you anymore there is huge rot further underneath the surface.

If the outcome is it’s all dropped I don’t blame anyone for seeking a refund tbh.

TallyHoMyLittlePeachMuffin · 14/01/2022 10:01

If they are not fined I'd want my money back too
There shouldn't be two tiers to the law/rules

VikingOnTheFridge · 14/01/2022 10:03

@MorningStarling

Generally fines were issued to idiots who blatantly broke the regulations. The fact that this drip drip drip of what happened at Downing Street is occurring the best part of a year or two suggests that the breaches were not all that blatant.

I have no sympathy for people who got fined for breaking the rules. You could have just stayed at home.

There were thousands of fines issued, lots with no legal basis, and there is no way you're sufficiently familiar with all of them to be able to make that generalisation. You are bullshitting.
Hemingwayzcatz · 14/01/2022 10:03

YABU, I think they’re absolutely correct. The people who made the rules broke the rules left, right and centre. Why should ordinary people fined for things like sitting on a park bench for example not get their money back? Will Downing Street now face a hefty fine and criminal charges? They should!

GirlInACountrySong · 14/01/2022 10:05

I would usually agree with your reasoning

This time I don't.

He made the laws, he SHOULD have been role modelling them.

Everyone should be reimbursed.

thewhatsit · 14/01/2022 10:07

I think we should retrospectively pardon a lot of the lockdown rule breakers actually. The rules were disproportionate and unfair.

I’m not saying ALL of lockdown was wrong but sitting distanced in a garden with a friend of family member or having the audacity to use a bench with a friend while doing your allowed exercise should have always been legal.

A4513 · 14/01/2022 10:07

YABVU.

The police were heavy handed and abusing their powers during huge chunks of lockdown. I'm a law abiding citizen and was shocked at how the police dealt with people for the most innocuous of behaviour - huge inconsistencies and heavy handed approach, ridiculous.

Good on people challenging their fines, many of them should never have been issued in the first place and relationships between citizens & the police have surely been damaged as a result.

Politicians taking the piss on top is just another kick in the teeth.

Original poster
girlmom21 · 14/01/2022 10:07

@Hemingwayzcatz

YABU, I think they’re absolutely correct. The people who made the rules broke the rules left, right and centre. Why should ordinary people fined for things like sitting on a park bench for example not get their money back? Will Downing Street now face a hefty fine and criminal charges? They should!
I hope the individuals get fined rather than 'Downing Street' being fined and those fines ultimately being paid for by the tax payer
OP posts:
GirlInACountrySong · 14/01/2022 10:08

It's very them and us

The peasants and gentry.

It's not on, it's ten steps backwards for society

Where I work there's been a big drop in mask wearing this week. Wonder if that's also a result of wishy washy behaviour around covid rules from our leaders?

Ikona · 14/01/2022 10:08

@Sockwomble

"I have no sympathy for people who got fined for breaking the rules. You could have just stayed at home."

In first lockdown I started taking my severely autistic son for drives and then back to his regular walking places because he wasn't coping. I was always worried about being stopped by a police officer who wouldn't understand. I know lots of people with similar children were thinking about distressed their child needed to be before they would justified in doing similar and how they would explain it to the police. Whereas Boris and his pals were partying on.

Hopefully the lockdown situation doesn't arise again, but I'm also autistic and was sent a letter I could take out with me, saying I was exempt from just exercising locally and could go further afield to walk if not doing so would cause distress and disrupt my routine. I didn't ask for it, but it may be something you could request. I didn't need to use it, but would have felt less nervous if I'd needed to go further afield. 🙂
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/01/2022 10:08

@canigooutyet

I do laugh though at people frothing about BJ lying and now not fit for office. It's not like he was exactly honest before he won the election.

And how the police didn't notice beforehand is beyond me considering there are police constantly there. Or are number 10 suggesting that everyone was jumping over the back wall?

I didn't vote for the cunt and I am still angry.