To pick a pub with a log burner for a family meal?

[hippohippohippo]

It's my DH's birthday and I've booked a table at a pub for us and SIL and family. We have a 6 month old and they have a 5 month old. SIL says they are free but not coming, as the pub has a logburner and it's winter and might be on. It hadn't occurred to me that this was a problem and am fine taking my DS (and have regularly been to pubs with a logburner). She insists we look for somewhere that doesn't have a fire if we want them there. Is she being unreasonable or am I?

Her baby sounds like a wimp! It should toughen up and learn the life isn't all clean air and roses. Maybe buy it some Benson and Hedges for first birthday.

Just as well nobody had children in the olden days

Never heard anything so ridiculous, 2-3 hours in a pub with dozens of tables meaning it's unlikely you are even near the fire, is not going to heard anyone. Plenty of houses are still heated by wood

[quote MasterGland]@Dguu6u. I have read the report, thank you. I noticed some of the limitations of the methodology used (including those that the authors themselves note) and thought it would be interesting to see if the results could be reproduced. Testing for reproducibility is a critical part of the scientific process, as I am sure you are aware, as I take it you are an academic yourself.
The authors themselves noted that they wanted to carry out their research under real life conditions in the home. I carried out the same measurements in my house, that the 20 people in Sheffield did for this report. I'm not saying that it is conclusive, but that it is interesting that I could not reproduce the results. It warrants further investigation, in particular with the particulate attribution analysis that the report authors also recommended. I look forward to the publication of further research.[/quote]
Yes but testing findings is usually done under controlled circumstances, not by a random person who doesn’t know what they’re doing. Burning wood produces fine particles. Log burners produce fine particles. You open the door you are burning wood in, you spread those fine particles inside. It’s all a logical assumption, and just because you couldn’t measure it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. Leave it to the experts I’d say.

I bet she doesn't care so much about cancerous fumes driving her precious babies around in a car, does she?

Everyone is entitled to their own choice. However, in my rural area a lot of clean wood is burned, and proportionately our experience of asthma and other issues is a lot lower than in urban areas. Pollution and particulate exposure will be made up of many factors. To ignore a pub with a log burner is a huge over reaction. To those who suggest we do not know the future implications, log burners have a history of over 180 years in rural England. Trust me, we are not falling like flies.

@Woodlandwater do you have a link to your air purifier?

Just go without them, the woman sounds annoying and nitpicking, for a relitively short visit to a pub,

@1forAll74

Just go without them, the woman sounds annoying and nitpicking, for a relitively short visit to a pub,

This.

Exposure to wood burning pollution before 1 is linked to cardiac and autoimmune problems later in life. But this is long term exposure - a single evening at a pub won’t cause any problems.

@Dguu6u but they didn't control other variables, merely had the participants note them in a journal.
I know how to design an experiment, whilst not an academic, I have a science degree. It is also not a logical assumption to assume that the particles enter the room when the door is opened, as stoves are designed so that there is a significant draw up the flue. That is why, with proper refuelling technique, you open the door slightly, to allow pressure to equalise.

Anyway, I think I will leave this now, as MN has made its mind up about this one.

A possible solution?

I wonder if we are storing up lung problems for future by the current trend for wood burners

Surely any issues related to using fires as hearing would be reducing as houses tend to be heated by central heating these days.
I spent all my childhood in a house heated by one coal fired stove as I'm sure did many of my generation and earlier.

I wonder if we are storing up lung problems for future by the current trend for wood burners

No more than there was in the past. Some of us were brought up in houses heated solely by open fires. Even in children’s bedrooms.

My house would be uninhabitable without them. They’re our main source of heat. We have 2 or 3 going most days from October to April/May.

“ Did you see I live in rural France?
Logs are much cheaper than oil or electricity.
Electricity is really expensive in France.
I don’t have any friends or neighbours in France who buy log burners to look at. God, I’d love a simple, price equivalent alternative that didn’t need cleaning, emptying and lighting everyday from November until March!
My dh would love not to cut logs one day every fortnight to keep us going.
You’re the one talking bollocks.”

Well the plan to ban then in the uk will have precious little effect on you then won’t it.

“ Did you see I live in rural France?
Logs are much cheaper than oil or electricity.
Electricity is really expensive in France.
I don’t have any friends or neighbours in France who buy log burners to look at. God, I’d love a simple, price equivalent alternative that didn’t need cleaning, emptying and lighting everyday from November until March!
My dh would love not to cut logs one day every fortnight to keep us going.
You’re the one talking bollocks.”

No I didn’t see the big where you lived in rural France. But don’t let that slow you down.

I wonder if we are storing up lung problems for future by the current trend for wood burners

Yes because humans burning wood for heat (or cooking) is a recent development….

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I wonder if we are storing up lung problems for future by the current trend for wood burners

Yes because humans burning wood for heat (or cooking) is a recent development….

House didn't used to be so well insulated as they are now. I think back to the single glazed sash windows when I was growing up which allowed the wind to whistle in and the close fitting double glazing I have now and the difference is huge.

What point are you making @ancientgran?

@PriamFarrl. Ok. Calm down.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

What point are you making *@ancientgran*?

Sorry I thought it was obvious but maybe it isn't for people who didn't live back then.

For all those centuries with open fires houses had more ventilation. We frequently live in hermetically sealed boxes now, double or triple glazing, fitted carpets, loft insulation etc. I can assure you the home I grew up in (in the 50s) would have had less issues with particulates hanging about. Think about the advice with covid when you are indoors, open the windows. You didn't need to open our windows as the wind whistled in when they were closed.

True, but draughty windows won’t have totally cancelled out whatever particles were in the room, in in comparison with a wood burner that has a closed door I can’t see that it would be a greater risk of harm today regardless of better insulation.

[quote Laney39]@Woodlandwater do you have a link to your air purifier?[/quote]
This one. But it has been much cheaper in black Friday sales www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-AC0820-30-Purifier-Anti-Allergen/dp/B07TQH4SJZ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?psc=1&crid=GFA4PRNIQCQ0&keywords=philips+purifier&sprefix=philips+puri%2Caps%2C416&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzS1NaSEQ1RTlPS1FPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODQyNTcwNEdBVTVMVTVIMTAyJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwMzY3OTkyV00zNjNIWERMTDdIJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcGhvbmVfc2VhcmNoX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1641755002&sr=8-1-spons

I react badly to the fumes from a log burner, even if I'm outside a property. My eyes stream. It cannot be healthy to breathe that stuff in so I am afraid you are being unreasonable in not understanding how unhealthy it is.

@MondayYogurt

Her baby sounds like a wimp! It should toughen up and learn the life isn't all clean air and roses. Maybe buy it some Benson and Hedges for first birthday.

Surely you mean Woodbines?