To pick a pub with a log burner for a family meal?

[hippohippohippo]

It's my DH's birthday and I've booked a table at a pub for us and SIL and family. We have a 6 month old and they have a 5 month old. SIL says they are free but not coming, as the pub has a logburner and it's winter and might be on. It hadn't occurred to me that this was a problem and am fine taking my DS (and have regularly been to pubs with a logburner). She insists we look for somewhere that doesn't have a fire if we want them there. Is she being unreasonable or am I?

The research constantly referred to in the guardian article is flawed. There was no attempt whatsoever to control any of the variables, that might also impact upon particulate measurement indoors.
I have tried and failed several times to reproduce the results of the report, once I had controlled for other factors. I have placed a particulate monitor next to the log burner, and have often failed to notice any increase from base levels whatsoever during refuelling. I use proper refuelling technique, and only seasoned wood. I live in the countryside. You have to really squint at my chimney to see if the burner is lit or not, it burns hot so there is very little smoke.

During the course of my "experiments" with particulate measurement, I found the burning of incense and candles to produce the highest levels of particulates, with levels that stayed elevated for longer. Up next was a hairdryer, which was surprising, and frying food.
I do wish someone would publish a study with proper control variables.

Up next was a hairdryer, which was surprising, and frying food.

Next, the OP has to find a pub that doesn't have a wood burning stove or serve fried food.

Probably best to stay at home.

When my firstborn was very newly born we spent Christmases with my in-laws in their very rural cottage. The open fires were all that kept me sane.

Does your sil know that gas hobs are just as guilty of producing particulates?

@ShirleyPhallus

This is the bonkers MN stuff I live for

Yep!

I love a pub with a fire. Even better the cost ones we have here in Ireland that burn peat.

*cosy

Does your sil know that gas hobs are just as guilty of producing particulates?

Self cleaning ovens must be the worst culprits for filling the house with particulates.

I would definitely be concerned about emissions from a log burner so that I would not want to use one in a home with young children. 2 hours exposure I am a bit of the fence about. But your SiL is not unreasonable not to want to do this.

I love a pub with a fire. Even better the cost ones we have here in Ireland that burn peat.

Nice...(!)

Unless someone is asthmatic then she is clearly insane.

Crack on without her .

@crazyjinglist

Sitting near one for a couple of hours as a one-off is probably fine. I think I'd probably choose not to with a newborn though, since it's not exactly hard to avoid. I'm really surprised so many people still seem not to be aware how bad they are for your health if you use them regularly though.

We use one everyday in winter, it’s that or freeze to death in rural France. Electric heating would cost about €400 a month and we’d probably still be cold. If log burners were banned here I think 40% of citizens would be cold. Oil is being phased out too. Being warm is already on the way to bring a luxury in the West.

Nuts. There are lots of pollutant substances in the environment. You'd be hard pressed to get through life avoiding them all - fires, log burners, air conditioning, scented candles, vehicles, pesticides etc

I have a very mobile 14 mo and take him to places with open fires and burners. Just getting vigilant!

Well they can't ban log burners until they can guarantee that all of us in deepest darkest rural areas are always going to have power/gas supply/oil fired heating/delete as necessary.
Literally every single one of my neighbours has a log burner or an open fire because when the power goes out (no gas supply here) that's all we have for heat/cooking. And as previous posters said, wood needs to be properly seasoned. If you're in a pub and the fire is smoky then there's an issue with the wood.

SIL is only unreasonable for asking you to change your plans. Just go without them and do something else another time

If log burners were banned here I think 40% of citizens would be cold.

Bollocks. Everyone I know who has a log burner has it because it’s nice. And that includes my family where I grew up which has a dodgy electrical supply and no gas.

I don’t deny that there is a need for log burners etc in rural areas but it is most certainly not 40% of the population.

@StoneofDestiny

Nuts. There are lots of pollutant substances in the environment. You'd be hard pressed to get through life avoiding them all - fires, log burners, air conditioning, scented candles, vehicles, pesticides etc

Again, I'd love to see the reactions if someone took this attitude to cigarette smoke on MN - 'there are loads of risks in life so of course it's fine for you to smoke into the pram, MIL' - said no MNer ever... But wood fires are pretty and tasteful so it's fine.

I'm asthmatic. My neighbours' ones set my asthma off when I'm inside my own house. The smell and particles travel a long way.

@PriamFarrl

If log burners were banned here I think 40% of citizens would be cold.

Bollocks. Everyone I know who has a log burner has it because it’s nice. And that includes my family where I grew up which has a dodgy electrical supply and no gas.

I don’t deny that there is a need for log burners etc in rural areas but it is most certainly not 40% of the population.

Did you see I live in rural France? Logs are much cheaper than oil or electricity. Electricity is really expensive in France. I don’t have any friends or neighbours in France who buy log burners to look at. God, I’d love a simple, price equivalent alternative that didn’t need cleaning, emptying and lighting everyday from November until March! My dh would love not to cut logs one day every fortnight to keep us going. You’re the one talking bollocks.

@WiganDiva

Wow. I thought she was bonkers until I read that Guardian article. Totally unaware of this!

Don’t forget though, some Guardian articles would have us believe that people can change sex, females should accept males in single sex spaces and Laurel Hubbard had no advantage as a male bodied transwoman even though they took the place of an actual female in the Olympics.

You know the guardian didn't do the research, right?

My DS2 had constant bronchiolitis 1 winter, so it would've been sensible to avoid wood burners/fires, had I been aware.

@MasterGland

The research constantly referred to in the guardian article is flawed. There was no attempt whatsoever to control any of the variables, that might also impact upon particulate measurement indoors. I have tried and failed several times to reproduce the results of the report, once I had controlled for other factors. I have placed a particulate monitor next to the log burner, and have often failed to notice any increase from base levels whatsoever during refuelling. I use proper refuelling technique, and only seasoned wood. I live in the countryside. You have to really squint at my chimney to see if the burner is lit or not, it burns hot so there is very little smoke.

During the course of my "experiments" with particulate measurement, I found the burning of incense and candles to produce the highest levels of particulates, with levels that stayed elevated for longer. Up next was a hairdryer, which was surprising, and frying food.
I do wish someone would publish a study with proper control variables.

Brilliant, didn’t realise you’re an academic and your “experiments” were peer reviewed and published in an academic journal www.mdpi.com/2073-4433/11/12/1326

Interesting that your sister is leaving all of the work up to you and can't even offer an alternative pub.

@Giggorata

Paraffin candles are made from petroleum by products and do emit pollutants and carcinogens. I don't suppose birthday cake candles will do much harm, for the milliseconds people are exposed to them.

You need to educate yourself. Peer reviewed studies have shown that paraffin wax and vegetable waxes have exactly the same emissions. The only wax that has slightly less emissions is beeswax. The problems come when candles are fragranced. The emissions go up slightly but some people can be sensitive to certain chemicals in the fragrance. If you look at the CLP label on a scented candle, it will show you any allergens, hazards and warnings associated with that fragrance.

@Dguu6u. I have read the report, thank you. I noticed some of the limitations of the methodology used (including those that the authors themselves note) and thought it would be interesting to see if the results could be reproduced. Testing for reproducibility is a critical part of the scientific process, as I am sure you are aware, as I take it you are an academic yourself.
The authors themselves noted that they wanted to carry out their research under real life conditions in the home. I carried out the same measurements in my house, that the 20 people in Sheffield did for this report. I'm not saying that it is conclusive, but that it is interesting that I could not reproduce the results. It warrants further investigation, in particular with the particulate attribution analysis that the report authors also recommended. I look forward to the publication of further research.