Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@PattyPan I think on an individual basis there is nothing wrong with dressing modestly. I think on a society level if this is expected of women then that is wrong.[/quote]
I haven’t noticed that happening personally. Particularly fast fashion places like PLT, Boohoo, Missguided etc are still providing plenty of revealing clothing for those who want that, there are just more accessible alternatives now I think. The only thing I suppose is possibly skinny jeans being ‘out’ in favour of baggier ones but I haven’t seen that linked to modesty.

My wedding dress is similar to this one www.wed2b.com/dollie but the lace covers the shoulders and goes up so it’s more of a boat neckline. Modest but not full length, at 5’3 I don’t really suit maxi dresses

[quote onlychildhamster]@KimikosNightmare you probably had a bigger budget than me in my uni days. In my uni days, I wouldn't spend more than £15 on a dress. My budget is now 2.5-3 X that and it is much easier. When I first met my MIL and SIL, they had a bigger budget than me and still struggled; it's lots easier now. My MIL is the most strict and wears long sleeved t shirts and long ankle length skirts cos I think it's that hard to find dresses that fulfil her strict standards (and she doesn't like black, only wears natural colours). I know a lot of orthodox Jewish women had such a problem that a lot of Jewish shops sell an item known as a 'shell'- t-shirt worn under a dress. For formal wear, its still hard, I spent hours perusing pages for evening dresses with sleeves that appeal to me. I have one from Debenhams that I bought for SIL's wedding, it took me a few months to find it. My MIL told me her really religious mates go to a tailor to get sleeves added etc that is a pretty expensive option! But if you watched unorthodox on Netflix or shtisel, you will have an idea- my MIL follows many of the same standards on dressing (though she doesn't cover her hair in the house and she wears trousers when exercising).[/quote]
That's really interesting.

I didn't have huge budget at university. I could afford Wallis at a pinch but I've honestly never had a problem finding long sleeved clothes - whether dresses, shirts, blouses or t- shirts. I hated my hairy arms so preferred sleeves ( the penny finally dropped at age 30 that you can remove arm hair)

When I first started working in 1981 I had long sleeved work dresses from Wallis. I fondly remember a black and white spotted one with pleats and a pussy cat bow which is very similar to dresses Allessandra Rich now charges £1000s for her.

Your sister- in- law would probably have had the budget for Jaeger or Austin Reed? I had long sleeved tailored work dresses from them and Laura Ashley. They probably wouldn't have met the ankle length requirement for your mil.

So far as "modest" Racing Green used to have a very Toast vibe in the 1990s. The current iteration of Racing Green bears no resemblance to it. I had a lovely button through, full skirted, almost ankle length soft dark indigo denim dress from them. It was pure Toast.

The "no black" ankle length skirt would be difficult. Black and ankle length wouldn't be difficult- I had several Victorian riding habit skirts in but any other colour wouldn't have been mainstream.

This is some one's Pinterest of 1970s boho. Lots of long dresses and long sleeves. They were not described as "modest" in the 1970s.

The first 2 pictures and then some later ones are of Charlotte Martin who had been a girlfriend of Eric Clapton but when this was shot was with Jimmy Page.

Her dresses and pictures are beautiful.

www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/183732859768105916/

@PattyPan

My wedding dress is similar to this one www.wed2b.com/dollie but the lace covers the shoulders and goes up so it’s more of a boat neckline. Modest but not full length, at 5’3 I don’t really suit maxi dresses

That is a beautiful dress.

@KimikosNightmare well my SIL is on an unpaid internship now and was on UC for ages (during the pandemic) so would not have a big budget.my MIL doesn't earn much either but bought her home in 1997 so its easier for her to budget. some people on another thread told me that spending £35 to £40 on a dress is extortionate and absolutely the preserve of the middle class and women on lower incomes would not do that etc etc. I said that I buy all my clothes on sale but someone also told me that she would never go into an expensive shop but would prefer to buy her clothes from supermarket. my MIL and SIL are very thrifty, never had credit card debt but they don't buy their clothes from the cheapest place they can find. They also own fewer clothes. My MIL buys cheap t shirts from ASDA but she wouldn't think £35 is too much to spend on a dress; she used to like this brand called East and also Gudrun Sjoden, and my SIL also likes this brand called IRIS (which has a shop in hampstead); and they only buy on sale. It might seem strange to someone who isn't in their circle; why they buy moderately priced clothes when they can just get a dress or t shirt from ASDA (and they probably would if they found a suitable one); but my SIL once told me ''modest clothing costs more as there is more material' and they also need special clothes for shabbat etc. Its not just them (I actually think my MIL and SIL are relatively casual dressers compared to others), we just met up with my DH's secondary school friend for dinner and he is far from rich (lives with his grandma in a 1 bed flat while retraining) but he wore a suit to meet us at a falafel bar. He wears a suit wherever he goes, it must be more expensive than wearing t shirt and jeans. But poor religious Jewish people just accept the cost, i suppose, and cut back in other ways.

my SIL and MIL actually don't like work clothes as they don't work in a traditional office. they like kinda hippie flowing modest clothing..

I think the rumblings about modest dressing are a bit exaggerated. The last couple of years of Amish and prairie dresses remind me of the sort of hippy, dippy, long skirts, demure little cheese cloth blouses, and droopy Indian dresses and skirts I wore as a teenager late 70s/ early 80s, mixed in with Laura Ashley milkmaid/ Tess of the Durbervilles, followed on by Monsoon.

I was just about to say this (and I don't recall anyone wearing cheesecloth tops tied at the midriff either).

When I was in high school one minute we were rolling over the tops of our skirts to make them shorter, the next we were wearing our skirts mid-calf length. It hardly meant we had suddenly become "modest", it's just fashion.

What you should be alarmed by, is why they have been making impractical clothing for girls and women, with cut outs all over, to reveal sex organs

Really? Clothes for women that 'reveal sex organs'? Where on earth are you shopping?

Apologies if you didn't actually use the word fugly, but your general tone was very disparaging and your thread is called "Ugly Clothing" "Ugly" of course as determined by you.

A lot of other people agreed with the OP, @KimikosNightmare.

If you're making an argument for respecting other people's taste, then you have to allow use of the word Ugly by people who think some clothes are ugly.

www.theguardian.com/fashion/2018/sep/14/batsheva-hay-prairie-dresses-new-york-fashion-week

It is definitely a look, @SquirrelG.

The NYC designer Batsheva Hay is credited with originating it.

Two years after this article was written all those Little House on the Prairie Target dresses were lampooned on TikTok.

I wish I had some popcorn.

In respect to types of clothes I wear, my style has evolved but not completely changed. I have always tended towards hippie/boho looks. I love to be my own person & dress for myself, whatever that might mean. I love looser clothing, favour pretty colours and natural fibres. I no long bother with high heels. However I do spend on quality handbag etc. my look may be a tad more modest these days but I have no regrets about wearing low cut tops etc. when younger. Nowadays the top would need to be very low cut, as my bosoms are not what they used to be!

@unwicked oh you poor thing.

It is definitely a look, @SquirrelG.

I didn't say it wasn't a look. I said it is merely fashion and doesn't mean that everyone who wears it is necessarily "modest". It's what was in fashion when I was a teen, and as we know these things go in cycles.

@RobertaFirmino

What you should be alarmed by, is why they have been making impractical clothing for girls and women, with cut outs all over, to reveal sex organs

Really? Clothes for women that 'reveal sex organs'? Where on earth are you shopping?

I have never in my life owned a garment that exposed my ovaries, uterus, or vulva. I have no other reproductive organs.

I have noticed that "ethical" clothes makers tend sell pricey clothes that aren't very shaped. Toast have turned that up to eleven. Those are hideous.

Been thinking about this thread, isn't it just the inevitable pendulum swing. My DM (Dd's GM) is a proper boomer young in the 60's. Dd cannot wear a skirt short enough or a top cut low enough to make her blush. So that's the third generation of revealing clothes- it's dull, it's mainstream, even a bit old fashioned. But those prairie dresses are new and different, Orthodox Jews aside none has dressed like that for the best part of a hundred years added to which they are comfortable- you have a trend right there.

Sorry, @SquirrelG, I was very clumsily agreeing with you that this is a look (and not a consciously modest one) and just like all other looks it will one day be old hat.

@Rubyyyy

Toast reminds me of my amazing art teacher when I was in collage.

Not personally my style but I can appreciate that some ladies can pull it off.

@Rubyyyy

I think it’s probably an official requirement for art teachers. Wonder if they get given a Toast brochure with their teaching certificate?