Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

@KimikosNightmare, No, people don't compliment confidence. That's an extremely silly idea.

We tend to look up to confident people. Confident people will have better posture and body language.

Dismissing posts as 'silly' or ridiculous is rude and says a lot about you

[quote FayCarew]**@KimikosNightmare, No, people don't compliment confidence. That's an extremely silly idea.

We tend to look up to confident people. Confident people will have better posture and body language.

Dismissing posts as 'silly' or ridiculous is rude and says a lot about you[/quote]
But couldn't @KimikosNightmare's dismissal of the idea count as confidence, making you look up to her? And pay her compliments?

Not at all @Subulter, I take a dim view of those who dismiss others' opinions in such a manner

Wow - I've come back to this thread to see a load of deletions. It kind of proves that fashion is not frivolous but is in fact a complex sociological marker that arouses strong feelings. It is definately a class marker but also speaks to how we see ourselves - even if that is seeing ourself as someone who does not care about fashion.

Headnorth, fashion is anthropology.

I’ve studied it for 25 years. Here’s something interesting and totally unrelated to this thread

Men grow facial hair when they feel threatened by women.

Late Victorian/Edwardian era, women were sort of allowed to go into further education, the married women’s propert act. Rise of suffragism. Long beards and sideburns.

1960s/70’s. Womens Lib, equal pay act,

And now.

Also mini skirts sweet signalling sexual availability as the pill was invented just before.

Were not sweet

And during recessions the sale of lipstick and nail polish goes up.

Class is about more than what you do for a living. It's about expectations - I think a person has only truly moved into middle class when their children grow up expecting to go to university and have a professional career because that's the norm in their social group. When no one worries about money because, even if a bit strapped, they know more will follow.
There's a huge list of criteria which determine the subset of class people fit into - its things like the jobs of people you socialise with.
Heard somewhere that it can be boiled down to one question- what were your parents doing job wise when you were 14?

‘Men grow facial hair when they feel threatened by women.’

Is there actual research on this @ArseInTheCoOpWindow? What an interesting state of affairs.

Yeah, there’s loads more of stuff. I could go on for ever.

Why different silhouettes have chopped and changed., loads of stuff

co-op window

Agree very much. And it was said, in the 1970s - I was there - that long skirts etc were a response to the dire economic situation at that time (three day week etc), in contrast to the optimistic 'white heat of technology' short-skirted 1960s.
Just been looking very nostalgically at pages of 1970s paper patterns. I made some of those actual designs! Yes, there were lots of priarie dresses (you could sew your own Laura Ashley: vintagepatterns.fandom.com/wiki/McCall%27s_5790) , but some 1970s long dresses had quite low necklines. I had one like this, for example (though not quite so deep a vee - and a few tiny buttons to adjust to personal preferences): vintagepatterns.fandom.com/wiki/Vogue_7630_A There was also a very easy long halter-neck, backless frock pattern that more than one of my friends made and wore; that was quite revealing. And there were caftans, and (very vaguely) 'oriental' tunics and trousers.

Those prairie dresses! My sister had one!

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Those prairie dresses! My sister had one!

I’ve still got one and so has my sister. They sell for £££ on eBay. I remember saving up from my Saturday job and it cost £8, about three weeks wages. My daughter has snaffled it but I don’t think she’s worn it yet.

2 of the deletions were just me and another poster laughing at the first deleted comment. It was quite funny!

I’ve popped back on this thread because I heard a teenager shout at her boyfriend “don’t call it a pilgrim dress!” and it made me laugh soooo much. I doubt she’ll be wearing that again. It was a beige maxi dress with puffed sleeves…

In relation the class question upthread: when I was 14 both my parents were unemployed / on benefits - so that answers that then!

@Cornisharchitect

2 of the deletions were just me and another poster laughing at the first deleted comment. It was quite funny!

I’ve popped back on this thread because I heard a teenager shout at her boyfriend “don’t call it a pilgrim dress!” and it made me laugh soooo much. I doubt she’ll be wearing that again. It was a beige maxi dress with puffed sleeves…

In relation the class question upthread: when I was 14 both my parents were unemployed / on benefits - so that answers that then!

I've never been deleted before. 😳

Cornish architect Very interesting. But way back then, most of us had benefitted from either a mother who could sew and/or (quite dreadful but nonetheless informative) sewing lessons at school. They gave us the skills and confidence to be really creative (and at very low cost). I would NEVER do it now (for decades, have been vegetarian) , but when young I made myself a terribly flattering winter hat out of a 1930s fur stole. Thanks to just a few simple sewing lessons.

@Aderyn21

Class is about more than what you do for a living. It's about expectations - I think a person has only truly moved into middle class when their children grow up expecting to go to university and have a professional career because that's the norm in their social group. When no one worries about money because, even if a bit strapped, they know more will follow. There's a huge list of criteria which determine the subset of class people fit into - its things like the jobs of people you socialise with. Heard somewhere that it can be boiled down to one question- what were your parents doing job wise when you were 14?

I love this. Thank you for your insight - it’s so interesting!

Heard somewhere that it can be boiled down to one question- what were your parents doing job wise when you were 14?

That’s interesting. This has recently become a question on my employer’s diversity monitoring questionnaire.

Class is about more than what you do for a living. It's about expectations - I think a person has only truly moved into middle class when their children grow up expecting to go to university and have a professional career because that's the norm in their social group. When no one worries about money because, even if a bit strapped, they know more will follow.
There's a huge list of criteria which determine the subset of class people fit into - its things like the jobs of people you socialise with.
Heard somewhere that it can be boiled down to one question- what were your parents doing job wise when you were 14?

Wow - I thank my lucky stars every day that I don't live in the UK. I couldn't be bothered with all this rubbish.

When I was doing Sociology (late 80s/early 90s) social class was a lot to do with your values. So, kind of similar to expectations. Middle classes having a more long-term view eg staying on in education to get a better paid job, as opposed to leaving school early to start earning money - this may not be quite so clear cut now, however. We are all influenced by the social and cultural norms around us.

@seekinglondonlife

New to this thread and I clearly missed the memo that society is pushing us to dress like Muslims and Orthodox Jews Someone upthread said that strappy tops were always acceptable - in many places of work they have never been acceptable - ditto ripped jeans, belly tops, boob tubes and a number of other previously 'on trend' clothing items. The wider fitting, shapeless pieces we have now are simply a new trend (that will be replaced by sonething else in 6 months). As a fatty with no bust this suits me well, I will be stocking up when wide leg trousers are coming to the end of their line.

Yeah, not sure where that idea came from. Lots of office work have rules, sometimes unspoken, about needing sleeves, or at least disallowing think straps.

That being said there does seem to be a certain trend toward more coverage.

Wow - I thank my lucky stars every day that I don't live in the UK. I couldn't be bothered with all this rubbish.

The class system undoubtedly holds the country back, I consider it a negative aspect of UK culture (there are many positive aspects) but it is well entrenched.

It is interesting that economic uncertainty and austerity lead to more covering up - that certainly seems to track. As an aside, I hate the way more body covering clothing is referred to as 'modest' clothing - it is such a value laden word, as if female bodies are somehow innately 'immodest' - certainly most religions seem to view the female body with distrust bordering on disgust.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Headnorth, fashion is anthropology.

I’ve studied it for 25 years. Here’s something interesting and totally unrelated to this thread

Men grow facial hair when they feel threatened by women.

Late Victorian/Edwardian era, women were sort of allowed to go into further education, the married women’s propert act. Rise of suffragism. Long beards and sideburns.

1960s/70’s. Womens Lib, equal pay act,

And now.

Also mini skirts sweet signalling sexual availability as the pill was invented just before.

Is it bad that my first thought was 'I love Anthropologie too!'?