Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

@RoyalFamilyFan

There was a time when it was hard to buy dresses with more than cap sleeves from mainstream shops. I know because I bought the ones that did have sleeves. Wedding dresses though have always tended to be more modest except for a few years in the 1960s. But weddings have generally promoted a more virginal bride or more latterly a princess look.

I think this is true. I'm 42 and when I first started going into bars at 18 I remember looking for dresses with sleeves and couldn't find anything but cap sleeves. I ended up wearing skirts/trousers and tops instead.

Sorry, early night here!
From the previous thread:

@lightisnotwhite ah well, 'come the revolution' I daresay I'll be lobbing missiles from the barricades with the best of them. Except I'll be extracting them from the cavernous pockets of my linen dress and standing firm in my fugly Birkos.

@IncorrigibleTitmouse oh I wish I could have my time again, that sounds genuinely fascinating.. Is there some industry bible or segmenting for dummies guide I can read up on this stuff? Is the same theory applied to pitical campaigning?

One of the things I like about visiting France or Italy is that style and quality still exist.

The biggest compliment I ever got was when visiting Italy and I was approached by a woman selling a local service. She assumed I was Italian. No other compliment has ever come close to that

I'm as working class as they come. Born and raised in a Leeds council estate, nothing wrong with that. However, it doesn't mean I'm un-educated, on benefits or have a wardrobe full of bodycon dresses and leopard print leggings. I like a bit of everything. I've got some Boden, Joules, Mint Velvet, Sugarhil and I've got Primark, Matalan and M&S and a Stitch Fix subscription. If I like it I'll buy it and wear it. I do like to be a bit different though, I'm not afraid of a quirky pattern. I like Run and Fly and Lucy Locket Loves too. I'm a massive eBay lover though so I wouldn't dare spend loads on a jumper or a dress.

I don't get the hype about & Other Stories. It's another holy grail shop on MN but to me the stuff always looks cheap and flammable. I went into the big store in Manchester just before Christmas and it was a sea of over-priced polyester. To me it's no different to Karen Millen or Ted Baker.

Those that like modesty dressing, you do you. Lots of us don’t and would like some choice from retailers on the high street.

I agree with the pp who enjoys shopping in Italy or France where clothing isn’t ugly or drab. I too look forward to going abroad to get clothes that are quite joyful and don’t make me feel like an extra in The Handmaiden’s Tale.

I quite like Toast and have bought quite a bit from there over the years (though admit some of the offerings OP posted on the first thread were a bit challenging!).

I prefer natural fibres and find more choice of natural fibre clothes from places like Toast, Brora, House of Bruar, and Seasalt. I also buy from Jigsaw, Hobbs, Zara, Boden - but avoid the polyester. I like quite plain, classic styles though, and am very far from 'fashionable'. Fascinating thread OP!

BTW OP, you should take a look at the clothes from Margaret Howell, somewhere I aspire to shop at but can't quite afford. I think you will find it quite triggering!

I was quite surprised by the unrivalled drabness of the women’s clothing section when I first visited a French department store. Shoes were even more drab. TBF it was in a provincial city.

Sorry I quite like toast - outside of my budget mind you and they are mostly not generous enough up top for me, stretchy jersey fits better

I do see what you mean OP when you pick out a few pieces in isolation but with a bit of imagination I can also see how those pieces could be styled to look good on the right person. I would never wear any of these styles because they wouldn’t suit me and it would hurt me to spend so much on one item. I do pride myself on trying to dress stylishly on a low budget by mixing and matching from cheap shops.

I’m going to add ugly middle class childrens clothing to the thread. I’ve been following sad beige clothes for sad beige children on tik tok and it has had me laughing out loud.

@Crayfishforyou

Re ugly middle class children’s clothing: yep. Why do you think some of us are so traumatised.

Growing up in the 70s with a mum with modest dress/hippy overtones it took my wardrobe decades to overcome - I never learned how to dress properly. These clothes still bring me out in hives.

I agree with OP that women shouldn’t be on a societal level pushed into dressing modestly. Obviously it’s great to cater to religious diversity and just anyone who wants to be more covered but it always seems acceptable to mock women who don’t dress “modestly”

I dress in what’s probably quite a (according to MN) working class style, love a stretchy top or dress. Also have big boobs and a relatively hourglass shape. Why should I have to hide behind shapeless high collar dresses if they don’t suit me. I don’t find my boobs offensive and don’t see why other women should. Equally I live in a very diverse area with big Muslim population and love seeing how Muslim womens fashion has developed over the past 15/20 years in the uk

Surely all of this is as much about your personal style and body shape. The class element is that mc women have more money to make fashion choices more according to their style/body shape. Toast stuff looks 'different' but would look fabulous on someone tall with a bit of width. it's also a shame that in the UK there is such an assumption that once you are no longer young, you no longer have to care/have your own striking fashion style. One of the things I like about growing up in France is seeing lots of amazing looking middle and even elderly ladies being incredible with their clothes. who knows whether they were following fashion but they definitely cared about how their style and clothes which is beautiful.

@toddybell

I've just come across this thread and my take:

I spent years working out to get to a certain size and then maintain that size so that I could fit into clothes I was told (magazines, etc.) would suit my shape, make me look stylish/hip/current, etc. then I got pregnant and gained a lot of weight. I've tried and tried to address the weight issue and have lost some but have also come to terms with the fact that I'll never have the body I once had which means all of my old wardrobe (which I still can't get rid of- quality pieces which cost me a small fortune) has gone to waste. Since having the DC, I've discovered the Toast/Seasalt/Ganni/Shirin Guild style suits me much better- I can move about freely, not be self conscious, for example, about VPL, wearing shape wear underneath, etc. and I find it liberating. I probably look like a sack of spuds when people see me but I genuinely don't care- I feel much happier in what I wear now than I did in my slimmer days when everything was planned and coordinated and may have restricted what I was able to do (e.g. run for the bus!). The slouchy look suits me fine. I'm not here to win any fashion awards (confession: I still wear Uggs).

I don't think the desire to wear looser clothes is any great big epiphany. I'm 51 so not trying to show off my figure when I dress, but looser jeans are in fashion now. This desire is at least partly a response to fashion.

Let folk wear what they like, and you do the same, I hate some of the stuff I see so I don't buy it. Someone else might love it, so they do buy it. If it fits well, is well made (so will last), and you feel that it suits you, then what does it actually matter what anyone else really thinks? If you are unsure how it looks then get the opinion of a trusted friend, family member, or partner, not someone on the internet. Be you, and let others also do the same. .

I grew up in the 80s, watching Dynasty and playing with barbies and sindy, who had one pair of jodhpurs and a wardrobe full of ball gowns. My barbies used to go on adventure with action man, dressed in layers of chiffon.

I'm an hardwired to go for glam. The baggy, shapeless, colourless thing hurts my very soul.

I did dabble in baggy grunge as a mid teen, then almost naked Courtney love grunge...then I discovered cyber goth. There's nothing like going to sayers for a sausage roll on a Tuesday afternoon, whilst in full pvc, fishnet, sparkly eyeshadow and matrix coat to make the rest of your life's sartorial choices seem pretty dull.

@Elodeastar whilst agreeing that clothing should be a choice, my objection is how poor the choice is in the UK.

@thepeopleversuswork yeah, I wasn’t really meaning that 70s dress style - more big skirt with tailored blouse and jacket - maybe late Edwardian? I love this lady’s style

Isn't that Willa Cather?

This thread is hilarious. I have often been on the style and beauty forum and thought WTAF at almost all of the suggestions, in particular when it comes to shoes and dresses. Can pretty much take it as a given that if you need fashion or relationship advice you aren't going to get good advice from mumsnet!

[quote llansanan]@Elodeastar whilst agreeing that clothing should be a choice, my objection is how poor the choice is in the UK.[/quote]
Have you tried vintage/second hand/pre-loved? You often find much more variety in these styles, because there are more than just current trends around? The only proviso is that if it's more than 15 or so years old the sizes can come up a bit smaller, so bear that in mind. I often buy second hand and have managed to find clothes in the styles, colours, and price range that works for me. I do prefer more timeless styles though, that are well made, so they last more than one season.

@Premiumtube

This thread is hilarious. I have often been on the style and beauty forum and thought WTAF at almost all of the suggestions, in particular when it comes to shoes and dresses. Can pretty much take it as a given that if you need fashion or relationship advice you aren't going to get good advice from mumsnet!

Yes I agree. I suspect they would think my clothing choices are vulgar or common.

I can’t help but feel that the underlying logic of this thread is ‘Given that MC women have money, why don’t they use that money to buy the kind of clothes I would if I had that kind of budget?’

And the answer is just ‘People have different tastes, and brands that last longer than five minutes do so because they’ve catered to that taste.’