Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

I haven’t read the other thread and don’t like shapeless clothes. But I want to defend dressing modestly. I like to wear my dresses/skirts below the knee because then I don’t have to worry about accidentally flashing someone! And I like covering my décolletage likewise to avoid the risk of nip slips. And covering the shoulders is just more flattering and helps avoid sunburn. Dressing modestly just makes me more comfortable. I’m currently in a knee length dress from Thought and their opaque bamboo tights - extra benefit of modesty in this case is also extra warmth!

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@KimikosNightmare were you the one who insulted me last thread for disagreeing with you?
I was not telling you what clothes you owned. I was simply stating that although cheesecloth blouses were very popular, they often were not worn in a particularly modest fashion.
I don't understand why you would insult someone for simply disagreeing with you. Pretty strange.[/quote]
I can't recall insulting you- you were actually very insulting yourself with your determination that anything you didn't like was "fugly" or for grannies, etc, etc.

I did say that your thread started off quite light hearted but got quite nasty with the unimaginative repetition of "fugly" to the point it actually ruined a new dress for one person.

@KimikosNightmare I never once used the word fugly or said any clothes were for grannies.
Neither of those are things I would ever say.
For some reason you have decided I am someone you are going to insult and be nasty to. I know that says far more about you than me.

@PattyPan I think on an individual basis there is nothing wrong with dressing modestly. I think on a society level if this is expected of women then that is wrong.

@RoyalFamilyFan I don't see it as encouragement, i see it as an acknowledgement of ethnic minorities_ which are a growing market. This generation is by far the most ethnically diverse in the history of the UK.

I don't see why my orthodox jewish SILs and MILs need to go to expensive specialist clothes shops in Golders Green and not shop at a big mainstream retailer like H & M. Also no offence to the golders green shops but they are really not my taste but actually modest clothing should also cater to a wide range of styles and tastes. I am not orthodox Jewish but I do like more modest clothing, even my wedding dress has quarter length sleeves! Of course the orthodox jewish community is very small; the muslim community is much larger. I also think the modest dress is very practical for women; just throw on and go! Don't worry about shaving, can move freely, don't need to worry about matching separates.

@RoyalFamilyFan

I personally like long sleeves. But fashion trends are often because of wider cultural moves. And I think a cultural move encouraging women do dress more modestly is alarming.

Is there any evidence of this? I don't see it?

I mentioned & Daughter- they sell the sort of dresses you describe as "fugly" and can't imagine why any one would wear. They also sell very short dresses, shorts and sleeveless, draw string, very low backed sun dresses.

I am a big fat lump (due Jan 16th but big anyway) and I love shapeless dresses but with some colour to them. La Redoute is my go to. Affordable shapeless and gaudy. Describes me to a T!

but I do like more modest clothing, even my wedding dress has quarter length sleeves

But dresses have always had sleeves. My summer dresses have short sleeves, a few are sleeveless and my winter dresses have 3/4 or long sleeves. I wear dresses almost all the time and have done so all my adult life. I've never had any difficulty buying dresses with sleeves. I've never had to search out specialist shops.

YANBU. I clicked on a few of these sites and was a bit .

Granted, I am in my late twenties and I don’t think I’m their target demographic. I can’t imagine a time when I’d go down that fashion route but time will tell!

Toast reminds me of my amazing art teacher when I was in collage.

Not personally my style but I can appreciate that some ladies can pull it off.

@onlychildhamster I think it is great for manufacturers to cater for all women. But the growth in modest fashion appears to be a far greater proportion of the market than simply those who want it for religious reasons.
I do think there is subtle encouragement to not wear more revealing clothing growing. I have heard so many comments over the last few years about ordinary strappy tops being too revealing. These used to be totally normal and no one would have passed comment.
Of course some women do not dress modestly and that is allowed. But I do think there are quite subtle cultural changes happening.

I have never used the word fugly. Please stop repeating that.

@KimikosNightmare

I agree. I love tea dresses and wrap dresses that have sleeves. I’ve bought 4 over the last month that have all either had mid or long length sleeves. All from generic high street/affordable online shops (ASOS, Zara etc) as well. My favourite dress ever was one from ASOS last year which was £11 in the sale and has sleeves.

I also see a lot of stores who do a tonne of midi and maxi dresses that have some sort of sleeve, too. Midi dresses have been on trend for years and most of them have sleeves.

There was a time when it was hard to buy dresses with more than cap sleeves from mainstream shops. I know because I bought the ones that did have sleeves.
Wedding dresses though have always tended to be more modest except for a few years in the 1960s. But weddings have generally promoted a more virginal bride or more latterly a princess look.

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@KimikosNightmare I never once used the word fugly or said any clothes were for grannies.
Neither of those are things I would ever say.
For some reason you have decided I am someone you are going to insult and be nasty to. I know that says far more about you than me.[/quote]
We shall have to agree to disagree on your tone. You were extremely disparaging about styles you didn't like. I wasn't the only poster who called you out on it.

Apologies if you didn't actually use the word fugly, but your general tone was very disparaging and your thread is called "Ugly Clothing" "Ugly" of course as determined by you.

@KimikosNightmare stop lying. Seriously you are out of order. I have never said any clothing was only for grannies. I would never use ageism like that. Never. I am quite angry now at your repeated lying about me.

@RoyalFamilyFan

There was a time when it was hard to buy dresses with more than cap sleeves from mainstream shops. I know because I bought the ones that did have sleeves. Wedding dresses though have always tended to be more modest except for a few years in the 1960s. But weddings have generally promoted a more virginal bride or more latterly a princess look.

When was that? I can't think of any time in my adult lifetime that was the case. And as I stopped wearing jeans and trousers in 1990 dresses were my go to.

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@KimikosNightmare stop lying. Seriously you are out of order. I have never said any clothing was only for grannies. I would never use ageism like that. Never. I am quite angry now at your repeated lying about me.[/quote]
You started a thread to call out other women's clothes as ugly.

OP

People talk about how women these days are not frumpy like older women used to be in the past. I laugh at that because my 90 year old gran would have rejected this dress as too frumpy

Posted by you on the other thread.

I'd forgotten about Jigsaw as it closed down in our city last year, but still seems to be thriving in smaller market towns. I ended up buying this jacket in Lewes last month and it is THE loveliest jacket I've owned in years - I get asked about it a lot!

www.jigsaw-online.com/products/eden-eco-down-puffer-navy

I have to admit I've never noticed a huge issue with cleavage as a short person. I have short legs and a seemingly normal sized body (I can generally get away with regular tops and roll the sleeves up). I also don't have a large bust. Perhaps this is why. I also generally prefer a round or crew neck and always hated v necks.

I wonder if perhaps the shift towards shapeless and modest clothing is a reflection of women's changing attitudes to growing tired of being judged for their shape and appearance.

I have to admit with WFH since covid, I have embraced the jeans and jumper look in favour of dresses and heels.

[quote SpiderMoniker]I'd forgotten about Jigsaw as it closed down in our city last year, but still seems to be thriving in smaller market towns. I ended up buying this jacket in Lewes last month and it is THE loveliest jacket I've owned in years - I get asked about it a lot!

www.jigsaw-online.com/products/eden-eco-down-puffer-navy[/quote]
There's still one in my city. I hope it's thriving. It's not somewhere I shop very often - sort of forget it's there. Same with Whistles and LK Bennnet but it would be a shame if it and Whistles and LKB disappeared off the high street.

@KimikosNightmare you probably had a bigger budget than me in my uni days. In my uni days, I wouldn't spend more than £15 on a dress. My budget is now 2.5-3 X that and it is much easier. When I first met my MIL and SIL, they had a bigger budget than me and still struggled; it's lots easier now. My MIL is the most strict and wears long sleeved t shirts and long ankle length skirts cos I think it's that hard to find dresses that fulfil her strict standards (and she doesn't like black, only wears natural colours). I know a lot of orthodox Jewish women had such a problem that a lot of Jewish shops sell an item known as a 'shell'- t-shirt worn under a dress. For formal wear, its still hard, I spent hours perusing pages for evening dresses with sleeves that appeal to me. I have one from Debenhams that I bought for SIL's wedding, it took me a few months to find it. My MIL told me her really religious mates go to a tailor to get sleeves added etc that is a pretty expensive option! But if you watched unorthodox on Netflix or shtisel, you will have an idea- my MIL follows many of the same standards on dressing (though she doesn't cover her hair in the house and she wears trousers when exercising).

@RoyalFamilyFan
www.wed2b.com/rosalee
Always thought this was the popular look..plenty do have see through mesh sleeves which aren't really sleeves in my book...

@onlychildhamster yes you are right. No sleeves, but still pretty modest really.