Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

Yes it is isn’t it?

No one really knows why. Suprised dresses don’t have long trains at the moment considering where we are economically!

It’s not about not being able to laugh at ridiculous clothes on the high street, or understand that shops target certain demographics. You could say that about anything.

It’s all the ‘middle class’ nonsense. What’s that about? This is about the fourth or fifth thread since Xmas. There was even one about whether it’s ‘middle class’ to use the term ‘Father Christmas’ rather than ‘Santa.’

What will it be tomorrow? Can’t wait..,

And yes, shops have their target demographics. I looked at that Toast website and Ive seen that kind of look around. I sometimes go out to Richmond and I’m sure I’ve seen that shop there. Also there is a Cos there. I don’t go in those shops personally, but I can see that it would suit some people. I was in a restaurant in Richmond with a friend the other day and there was a grouch of women in the next table. All probably 60 plus and wearing that kind of wide linen trousers / cashmere wraps kind of look. I have to say, they all looked fabulous - glowing skin and I don’t know, they just seemed happy and comfortable in their own skins and enjoying life. Good for them. So if shops like Toast are targeting that demographic, why try and make these slightly older ladies feel like frumps?

I love Cos clothes, but am still able to have a chuckle at the way the clothes are styled on their website (which frequently looks ridiculous and/or a bit pretentious). It's not about not having a sense of humour, or pretending not to notice target demographics.

I think what some of us are objecting to is the characterization of the Toast tunic-wearers as sexless, "frumpy" given-up-on-life women with more money than sense. That's where it stops being "light-hearted" for me. I'm still enjoying a lot of the other posts re. style analysis though, particularly Arseinthecoopwindow's.

When I was travelling in Pakistan in my 20s, I wore shalwar kameeze with sandals which was as plain and shapeless as possible (didn’t want to attract attention as a lone woman). You just buy the fabric in a market and they make it up for you. It was quite liberating actually. Never really felt the same way since

@Mankyfruitbowl

I love Cos clothes, but am still able to have a chuckle at the way the clothes are styled on their website (which frequently looks ridiculous and/or a bit pretentious). It's not about not having a sense of humour, or pretending not to notice target demographics.

I think what some of us are objecting to is the characterization of the Toast tunic-wearers as sexless, "frumpy" given-up-on-life women with more money than sense. That's where it stops being "light-hearted" for me. I'm still enjoying a lot of the other posts re. style analysis though, particularly Arseinthecoopwindow's.

But the Toast women (Toasters?), as well as being hopeless frumps who’ve ‘given up’, are also being characterised as the complete opposite — women who invest huge amounts of money and time in maintaining an unusually youthful and attractive ‘wood nymph’ appearance and whose shapeless, muted dresses are consciously chosen to give the false impression they ‘just woke up like that’.

That’s what’s amusing me on this thread!

Yes, the irony! But quite a few Toasters have come on to say that they aren't in fact mega-rich wood nymphs, so by implication they are just... what? I refer back to the shapeless, sludgy, given-up comments.

But surely OP, if people are giving these women a 'lot of compliments' on how they look a fair few people don't think their clothes are actually ugly?

I never get any compliments on what I wear. I very occasionally get asked where I bought something I wear, and I have been around long enough to know what that means

I agree with @Enough4me.
Plus £130 for a black bin bag!

I sometime find myself thinking - to myself, in my own head, @threadpolice - 'What was she thinking?' when I see other people's outfits.

We're allowed to poke fun gently here.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I was a pattern cutter for five years. I like Cos because of the clever pattern cutting. They look deceptively simple, but are quite complex. You need a degree in engineering to iron them. There’s nowhere on the Hight Street that does this apart from them.

So from a construction point not all their items are shapeless. Some of them are ingenious.

That’s really interesting and probably explains why they need to be tried on and not judged by how they look on the hanger

What does being asked where you bought something mean? ^^

It means WTF.

See also, 'That's an interesting skirt/trousers/top...'

Encouraging women to poke fun and be snide and nasty about what others wear isnt gently laughing at yourself or others though Op.

Perhaps you lack self awareness or your self esteem is poor?

Your threads are horrible, really mean and you encouraged others to join in.

@mathanxiety

It means WTF.

Shit. I ask that question when I like the style and want to buy something similar. I had no idea it could be misconstrued as an insult!

I was a teenage in the 80s - definitely WC so I am struggling to love those baggy sack dresses. No longer have the figure for body con either.

Made worse by going back to work after a break and while I have money I don’t want to spend it on things that make me look awful!

Have bought things from Massimmo Dutti, Brora and All Saints recently but struggling to find nice work clothes for an office that look professional and are natural fabrics.

So many hideous outfits posted. The original Toast dress that sparked the whole chat - why can’t they use an attractive model? I’m not being disingenuous, why have someone who looks they’re about to head off to a funeral having spent the last month in a monastery wearing sackcloth and ashes. Grim and not at all aspirational.

I've just had a good look at the Toast website. Most of the clothes look perfectly nice to me (although I wouldn't pay that much for clothing), and it's making me wonder what type of clothes those who are the most vocal in their criticism are wearing. We all have our own ideas on what we like, and some of us like loose fitting natural fabric clothing - especially those who live in places where it gets hot - and wouldn't be seen dead in tight fitting synthetics, yet we don't feel the need to start threads about how ugly those clothes are. Live and let live I say - I don't judge other people's clothing choices.

It is incredibly aspirational.

There is a whole tribe out there aspiring to look like that.

repeller.com/menocore-fashion-trend/

Welcome to menocore.

OP is not personally attacking any women, she is noting styles that she is not keen on and finds amusing and is wondering what others think.

OP said in her original post that the clothing on Toast and similar clothing websites was "ugly" - in fact that word was used twice, and again in the title- so where are you getting "amusing" from? She is attacking women who dress in a certain way, simply because she doesn't like it.

No not all of Toast. I said some clothes looked ugly. They do.

I don’t think Cos and Toast are that similar.

Toast is very fond of checks and brown.

Cos is a bit starker, but users more colours.

I wear it because it’s minimalist. Not because it’s middle class!

I hate fussy stuff.

I think it's a fairly generally accepted fact that people have differing tastes. I really don't think you can claim absolutes for either 'pretty' things or 'ugly' things, beauty being in 'the eye of the beholder' as we used to say.
Personally, I don't see any ugliness AT ALL in clothes like these. I like their simple lines and lack of unnecessary detailing. In fact I was just pondering what clothes I would call 'ugly' and have drawn a bit of a blank realising it's not a term I would find easy to use in this context. I might think things are too fussy, or too strappy maybe? But they're not really ugly, just (definitely) not for me, I'd look ridiculous in them.

@mathanxiety

It is incredibly aspirational.

There is a whole tribe out there aspiring to look like that.

repeller.com/menocore-fashion-trend/

Welcome to menocore.

Ha! funny.

What the OP said in the opening post was

So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was

And then repeated"ugly" in almost every post, occasionally substituting, shapeless,
ridiculous, frumpy.

It's perfectly fine for the OP to think these clothes she doesn't like are ugly. We probably all think that about things we don't like.

But the thread was not about "laughing at ourselves" . It was about laughing at these women with so much money and going on and on about why don't they buy something nice. The iteration of why can't they see these clothes are ugly, why don't they buy something nice is the point where it moved on to just getting at /criticising other women.

The subject of tribes, what tribe one is in and how one signifies which tribe is a very interesting topic and that was covered in the thread.

@koalacat
Imagine if someone started a thread about “Working Class Ugly Clothing” citing Primark or Tesco. That would be very unpleasant indeed wouldn’t it?

Yes @Koalacat it would be unpleasant. But totally different to this thread. If you don't have much money you don't have much choice about where you shop and it really would be awful to laugh at that. However, people who shop at Toast or Cos have plenty of money and they choose to buy ugly clothes which look like they have been made out of fabric from a Victorian tip by somebody in their first sewing class. That's the mystery.

It's the difference between punching up and punching down.

OP I totally get what you are getting at and this thread could be great and light hearted but it's crammed full of people who don't get the point and keep going off on tangents about themselves.

Also I cannot stand it when people say they don't see class, or what is class? or we really shouldn't talk about class these days. Absolute bollocks. Class is great big fact of life. Even more so now that ever before. That does not mean I approve of it, just that it is there, staring us in the face with every choice every single one of us makes every day. It is the food we eat, the names we give our children, the clothes we wear, the TV programmes we watch etc. etc. etc. Though, by the way not necessarily to do with income at all.

Cue hundreds of posters claiming that they are above class or that nobody would be able to guess what class they are. Bollocks.