Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

I used to love East. I could always find beautiful cotton summer dresses and winter party outfits, lovely velvet jackets and skirts. A lot of their clothes had a boho look to them, they used a lot of Indian patterns.

Sadly it went bust, the shops closed, now everything is online and it is all baggy and droopy though still using attractively patterned fabrics.

But try as I might I cannot convince myself any of it would make me look or feel good. And the prices have shot up.

Luckily, the old stuff was such excellent quality that it has lasted and still fine for parties, holidays or wearing in summer. I have a lovely silk dress and scarf that I bought in 2002 and it is still perfect for hot evenings plus lots of other items bought over the years.

Has anyone mentioned Babipur? As well as crazily overpriced wooden toys they have children’s and adults’ clothes with colourful patterns. Kids’ stuff fair enough, but who wants to be decked out in radishes? It is MC and cultish; if you spot a stranger wearing it, you have to call out “Wankel”, lots of posts on their FB page reporting such sightings.

And the unflattering women’s styles are godawful and would be, even without any vegetables.

Yes class is a thing. My point is, there are far more constructive ways of framing the debate. It’s obvious when there is an undertone of spite / bitterness and it’s disingenuous (when this is pointed out) to then try and pretend you were just trying to stimulate an objective debate. Come on. Bollocks to that, frankly.

There will obviously be older ladies on here who have clothes from that shop. ‘Lighten up’ they are told. Well, maybe they don’t have much confidence for all sorts of reasons. Ageing is hardly a choice either. I can see that. We will all be older one day and, as you age, your style will change. Let’s see what OP is wearing at 60 and how robust she is then to being called ugly or a frump.

It’s ageism and yes, calling them frumpy or sexless or whatever is as nasty as mocking a middle aged woman in a Primark lycra top for her bingo wings or for being a chav. None of these slurs are pleasant or, indeed necessary, either way.

Well I’m WC and I would love a thread about where to buy clothes other than New Look. We only have New Look and Primark in our local City so it would be nice to know where else to go

I’d like affordable plain and soft fabrics.

I don’t even know what my style is! But I have liked Matalan lately.

I’ve tried buying stuff from Boo Hoo but it was far too long

I kind of agree with the OP, I just can't imagine wearing any of the clothes linked to, I would look ridiculous on my local high street or in Tesco in them. But, taste is very subjective, what is ugly to you might be pretty to someone else.
I don't get the hate for Seasalt, I love their stuff - comfortable, laid-back and pretty, and for someone tall like me, their dresses actually cover my bum and thighs.
I've got these dresses from there and I love them:

tps://www.seasaltcornwall.com/ie/trethias-island-aline-cotton-viscose-dress

Plus this one. I'm a similar build and colouring to the woman in the picture.
I wear this dress with black tights, brogue-style ankle boots, a long wool coat and mustard yellow bag. Have had lots of compliments on that outfit.

Someone mentioned Ted Baker and Karen Millen as working class...not sure I agree, I'd say they're MC brands but for very young people - students and young professionals in their 20s. The Ted Baker tote bags were all the rage at my uni.

@Cornisharchitect Try rapanuiclothing.com

Not sure what "class" it falls into but their stuff is simple, lovely soft fabrics and lasts for ages. I'm a big fan!

I think the OP started the thread to talk about Toast, Cos, Margaret Howell type clothes which are made of sludgy grey linen and worn with clumpy shoes, a scowl, heavy black rimmed glasses and huge necklaces, which is a very specific kind of style and incredibly expensive. Not at all general naice middle class mum clothes like Boden, Joules, Seasalt.

Other people seem to be just posting general chat about where they like to shop and getting indignant and defensive about imaginary criticism.

There will obviously be older ladies on here who have clothes from that shop. ‘Lighten up’ they are told. Well, maybe they don’t have much confidence for all sorts of reasons. Ageing is hardly a choice either. I can see that. We will all be older one day and, as you age, your style will change. Let’s see what OP is wearing at 60 and how robust she is then to being called ugly or a frump.

I find this rather patronising. I'm 62 and my taste in clothing hasn't changed since I was in my teens - in fact at any stage when 70s clothing is in fashion I'm all in! I certainly haven't lost confidence simply because I am in my 60s, quite the reverse. There is a strange mindset about getting older on MN. I also wear what many on here would call "shapeless" linen dresses - because it is hot at the moment (not in the UK, obviously) and they are far, far cooler to wear than anything else. However, today I am wearing denim shorts and a tee shirt

I said some clothes looked ugly. They do.

In YOUR eyes, that doesn't make them ugly - unless you are in some high position where your job is judging clothing? No, thought not.

Also, although I find the Toast clothes rather expensive and wouldn't spend that much, I do sometimes buy reasonably expensive clothes - but I would rather buy one expensive item that I am going to wear to death than lots of cheap clothes, which won't last, or I will tire of, and which will end up in landfill. BTW - I'm unemployed, whatever "class" that makes me!!!

We will all be older one day and, as you age, your style will change

I’m in my late 60s and mine really hasn’t. Neither has my hair, it’s alternately short and long (currently in between) except now it’s grey.

We will all be older one day and, as you age, your style will change

This is an example of somebody defending an imaginary criticism yet again. My dislike of Cos, Toast and Margaret Howell is nothing whatsoever to do with age. I am nearly 60 myself. I know women my age who wear these kinds of clothes but I am fairly certain it isn't because they have lost confidence. I actually think they feel like they are indulging themselves because of the way these clothes are marketed as being special and exclusive (and of course very expensive). They think it's a treat 'because I'm worth it' kind of thing. Like the art teacher's equivalent of a spa weekend.

@Cornisharchitect

Well I’m WC and I would love a thread about where to buy clothes other than New Look. We only have New Look and Primark in our local City so it would be nice to know where else to go

I’d like affordable plain and soft fabrics.

I don’t even know what my style is! But I have liked Matalan lately.

I’ve tried buying stuff from Boo Hoo but it was far too long

I thought you said you were an architect?

Apologies, if that's not correct but in what world is an architect "working class" beyond the sense that any- one who is paid for their work is working?

I do agree clothing is in a funny spot at the moment. It reminds me a lot of the clothes in the original Twin Peaks in 1990, and the kinds of things that were popular when I was in high school.

It's not all bad, but some of it is not that easy to wear if you don't have a good sense of how to style them. And some is bad and looks idiotic.

As for the class element, it's not totally far-fetched, there are some items of clothing that seem to be class markers and it's not a new thing. Price point is a significant element maybe?

But I also think age is a huge factor. I looked up one of the brands that someone above recommended, and while I rather liked the punk elements, the cuts would be really unflattering for someone my age, the shoes would ruin my back, and the styles would be inappropriate for my job. Our bodies change as we age and tight low ride (fake) leather pants don't quite cut it as a middle aged woman.

But the droopy baggy clothes are also difficult as they tend to make older women look very dumpy. Often as women age I think more structured clothes are better. And they are think on the ground at the moment without spending on very high end brands.

I would say a word about more modest clothing. I think this is a good thing, and people should not assume that it means suggesting bodies are somehow shaming, It's really quite the opposite, it's about respect for your body and also for the people around you. Most people want to look attractive and put together, but there is really nothing weird about wanting to avoid presenting to the general public in a way that doesn't draw especial attention to our sexiness.

Agree with every word you said @Horological

Disingenuous shite, the posts saying 'clothes are middle class,really?' If you don't agree that social status can be discerned by, among other things, what you choose to wear, you're either being disingenuous or you're thick.

And we're all allowed opinions on whether different brands are attractive or not. That's what chat sites like MN are for.

@KimikosNightmare H&M, Zara/Massimo Dutti and Mango all do quite plain clothes at highstreet prices. I also love Matalan for jeans!

It's the difference between punching up and punching down

Why is there need to "punch up" in a discussion about what style of clothes appeals/ don't appeal to one group or another?

OP I totally get what you are getting at and this thread could be great and light hearted but it's crammed full of people who don't get the point and keep going off on tangents about themselves

What was the point of the thread? I didn't see any point beyond the OP wanting posters to agree clothes she thinks are ugly, are indeed ugly. She told us often enough that the clothes were ugly and that she couldn't understand why women wouldn't buy clothes which are "nice"- whatever that means.

As it is, the thread had lots of interesting points about tribes and demographics, but that was despite, not because, of the OP.

[quote Rubyyyy]@KimikosNightmare H&M, Zara/Massimo Dutti and Mango all do quite plain clothes at highstreet prices. I also love Matalan for jeans![/quote]
I complimented a woman of my age on the fantastic, long navy and white spotted, slightly bo-ho, art teacher going to a tea- party at Buck House and having to forego Toast for the occassion, style dress. It was Zara!

@KimikosNightmare, if you don't like the thread, hide it. If you think it should be deleted, report it.

Disingenuous shite, the posts saying 'clothes are middle class,really?' If you don't agree that social status can be discerned by, among other things, what you choose to wear, you're either being disingenuous or you're thick.

And we're all allowed opinions on whether different brands are attractive or not. That's what chat sites like MN are for.

YYY to all of this.

Absolutely. I’m just amused by the fact that the posters who dislike certain clothing brands do so because the middle-class women they see as the target market are either frumps who’ve given up on life in the sartorial equivalent of sackcloth and ashes, gullible fools taken in by the marketing and believing such expensive clothes must be special, or dewy, carefully-maintained wood nymphs (I thought this was a lovely expression) who like to give an impression of not trying too hard.

It still comes down to ‘Why don’t other people, especially those with disposable income, share my taste?’

[quote mathanxiety]@KimikosNightmare, if you don't like the thread, hide it. If you think it should be deleted, report it.[/quote]
There are interesting comments on it, despite the OP.

I'll say for about the fourth time the discussion of tribes, demigraphics, what we are saying about ourselves through our clothes (even when we think we aren't saying anything) is interesting.

I don't however think such a discussion needs to "punch up" or see one demographic as fair game to punch.

"demographics"

Yes, I think you have made that clear.

@Cornisharchitect

Well I’m WC and I would love a thread about where to buy clothes other than New Look. We only have New Look and Primark in our local City so it would be nice to know where else to go

I’d like affordable plain and soft fabrics.

I don’t even know what my style is! But I have liked Matalan lately.

I’ve tried buying stuff from Boo Hoo but it was far too long

Zara and H&M I find the best for clothes.

@mathanxiety

Yes, I think you have made that clear.

I didn't see the point of your comment, hence repeating myself.