Middle Class Ugly Clothing part two

[RoyalFamilyFan]

Original thread here.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4446999-To-think-so-many-middle-class-clothes-are-ugly?pg=40

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

When I want to buy something of a relatively decent quality I actually find Superdry to be good. Which initially surprised me.
I don't buy any of the branded stuff though.

I think all these frumpy greyey oversized clothes work only if the wearer is on the thinner side of slim and is absolutely immaculately turned out otherwise. Glowing skin, shiny hair, perfect teeth. Then it looks deliberate and actually highlights how attractive the wearer is.

I have a good friend who is an ex-model with a monthly self-care and beauty bill in thousands, and she looks gorgeous and very stylish in Boden et al. For me, it will be a genuine potato sack look.

@toddybell

*@RoyalFamilyFan* I NEED to know where this dress is from (your post on the previous thread)

misses point of thread entirely

This is not a dress.

Toast. Ee. Overpriced and shapeless.

OP, I think you have got a bee in your bonnet about this ‘Toast’ middle class this and that.You are reading too much into it and taking it all too literally.

The truth is, you could go into any shop in the high street, from Primark to Gucci, and half the stock will be bizarre / hideous. You will wonder, “who on earth buys this crap?’

Yes Toast has some weird shapeless ‘cult-looking’ clothes, I’m sure. You do wonder who designs these things. But equally, there have been threads on here about M&S and some of the monstrosities they put out there. You could have a thread like this on literally any shop.

I don’t shop in this ‘Toast’ but I would imagine, that for those who do, they hardly buy the whole shop! They just buy one or two things and wear it with stuff bought from a whole range of other places.

Some women can wear ‘shapeless’ better than others. Yes, I can see your point about these clothes being dour - because most of them are. But equally, if you want to talk about extremes, is it a good look to see women crammed into cheap, badly-fitting lycra or nylon crap that fills so much of the high street. Is this a better look?

Surely, most people just dress according to their lifestyle, body shape, income and personal taste. And they mix and match from all over the place.

@forinborin

I think all these frumpy greyey oversized clothes work only if the wearer is on the thinner side of slim and is absolutely immaculately turned out otherwise. Glowing skin, shiny hair, perfect teeth. Then it looks deliberate and actually highlights how attractive the wearer is.

I have a good friend who is an ex-model with a monthly self-care and beauty bill in thousands, and she looks gorgeous and very stylish in Boden et al. For me, it will be a genuine potato sack look.

Totally agree

The truth is, you could go into any shop in the high street, from Primark to Gucci, and half the stock will be bizarre / hideous. You will wonder, “who on earth buys this crap?’

I recognise this feeling. Where does it all go? It can’t all get sold.

Years ago, I'd go round clothes shops with a sense of longing, wishing I could afford what was on offer. Not these days! Right across the board, from Primark to whatever-the-posh-end-of-the-spectrum-is, it seems such a criminal waste of landfill space to create such hideousness.

My own derogatory comments about Toast etc on here are not at all aimed at the people wearing it, because I'm sure PPs are right that the simplicity/plainness offsets stunning natural beauty in much the same way as a picture frame. But what about those us who are not satiny gazelles? This kind of clothing is expensive enough to be aspirational, and having "You too could wear this sackcloth and ashes!" as an ultimate goal feels a bit like someone somewhere is having a laugh.

@Alcemeg

Years ago, I'd go round clothes shops with a sense of longing, wishing I could afford what was on offer. Not these days! Right across the board, from Primark to whatever-the-posh-end-of-the-spectrum-is, it seems such a criminal waste of landfill space to create such hideousness.

My own derogatory comments about Toast etc on here are not at all aimed at the people wearing it, because I'm sure PPs are right that the simplicity/plainness offsets stunning natural beauty in much the same way as a picture frame. But what about those us who are not satiny gazelles? This kind of clothing is expensive enough to be aspirational, and having "You too could wear this sackcloth and ashes!" as an ultimate goal feels a bit like someone somewhere is having a laugh.

I’m not a satiny gazelle, and I look as good in the Cos, Toast, MH or Oska garments I wear as I do in many other clothing brands mentioned on these two threads are more ‘appealing’ (and whose clothes I also have). Most of the women wearing Cos, Toast etc are as ordinary looking as I am. They just — presumably — like the way the garments look, feel, fit, as I do. (By which I mean individual garments, obviously — there are lots of things in all these brands I would never consider wearing.)

But I think that the idea that the women who like these brands or styles do so in a perverse form of attention seeking (‘Look at my goddess-like beauty which does not need form-fitting, pretty or obviously sexy clothes!’ is just not correct.

@borntobequiet a lot of the unsold items probably end up in landfil. I have heard that designer shops prefer to do that then have sales to preserve the value of new stock

@RoyalFamilyFan

This thread is nothing to do with making women feel bad about what they are wearing. People laughed at what I liked. So what? I didn't take it seriously. The truth is the kind of women wearing Toast and Cos are probably used to getting a lot of compliments on how they look.

They're wearing ugly, sexless, toddler-esque, sludge-couloured, cult member clothing, but are still getting compliments?

Just confirms my suspicion that this thread is designed to knock these women down a peg or two - just in case they think they actually look good!

The derails are getting boring zzzz
This isn't about knocking women, it's noticing a trend to shapeless and bland clothing.

Yes, I'm interested in fashion and trends too, but there's definitely a sneering tone in many (not all!) of these posts aimed at the wearers of the clothes and their supposed motivations, and not the clothes themselves.

(I don't even own any Toast, but if I did, I'd be feeling quite attacked!)

@Mankyfruitbowl

Yes, I'm interested in fashion and trends too, but there's definitely a sneering tone in many (not all!) of these posts aimed at the wearers of the clothes and their supposed motivations, and not the clothes themselves.

(I don't even own any Toast, but if I did, I'd be feeling quite attacked!)

I do own Toast and Cos garments, and I don’t feel attacked, I’m just trying to tease out the logic of some posts, especially

(1) the ones who say Toast and Cos wearers are more used to getting compliments despite wearing clothes the same posters view as shapeless and hideous and

(2) those who think that Toast or Cos wearers wear these clothes because they are so convinced of their own goddess-like beauty that the clothes are saying ‘Fuck you, I’m so gorgeous I don’t even have to try, so my sludgy, loose clothes are a kick in the teeth to those of you whose first question is always ‘Is this flattering? Does it make me look pretty?’’

If the OP had posted, ‘AIBU to notice a trend towards bland, shapeless clothes,” that would be another matter entirely.

No - this was yet another attempt at a sneering, put-down “middle class” thread. Same as the one the day before (when someone was in about starting their own “Working Class MN.” Same as the one the day before that.... something about “middle class women who choose to but second hand things..”

I don’t even wear these clothes - but I can see it for what it is.

What will it be tomorrow... “Middle Class shopping trolleys?” Hairstyles? Pets?

It’s almost as if somebody is obsessed?

I'm going to stop watching this thread. OP - nothing to do with you but the fun element has been killed!

Imagine if someone started a thread about “Working Class Ugly Clothing” citing Primark or Tesco. That would be very unpleasant indeed wouldn’t it?

I feel really bad now 😪

It's the cost of these garments, though... they just seem joyless.

But then I suppose that just goes to show that what brings one person joy means nothing to another.

If I had all the money in the world to spend on clothes, I'd install Vicky Gill in my wardrobe. I could build her a little shelf in there, perhaps with a sleeping bag, and take her food now and then, in return for dressing me like a spangled fairy on a daily basis.

It definitely isn’t a fun thread anymore…
Great while it lasted OP

Just back to add my two pe’north.

Hemlines drop when the economy isn’t good. Hence prairie dresses.

1920’s postwar boom short hemlines
1930’s recession long hemlines
1950’s post war rationing ballerina length hemlines
1960’s boom mini skirts
1970’s recession maxi dresses
1980’s bubble, ra ra, minicrin
1990’s recession, long baggy dresses

Etc etc.

In summer I tend to wear dresses and skirts right down to the ankle or linen trousers, mainly because my legs are meh and I prefer them covered, plus I don't like too much direct sun. I like upper arms covered too. But I do like a fitted waist and a low v neck. I enjoy theatre, costume drama, fantasy, steampunk, reenactment, so I probably think I live in another time!

(2) those who think that Toast or Cos wearers wear these clothes because they are so convinced of their own goddess-like beauty that the clothes are saying ‘Fuck you, I’m so gorgeous I don’t even have to try, so my sludgy, loose clothes are a kick in the teeth to those of you whose first question is always ‘Is this flattering? Does it make me look pretty?’’
I don't think that is exactly what was meant. From my perspective, at 35+ the difference between women who spend substantial money and effort on their appearance and those who don't is already very visible, and I think frumpy outfit choices are supposed to balance it off a little bit, in the "Ah, I just woke up like that", rather than "look at me, ain't I just gorgeous!" sense.

I mentioned an ex-model friend, who is early 40s. Her monthly upkeep cost is around £1500 (last time we discussed this topic, which was pre lockdown), and time-wise is almost equivalent to a part time job. She wears exactly those shapeless muted frocks, and looks very natural, with that wood nymph look, and looks late 20s max. On occasions when she dresses up / puts a lot of makeup on, you actually start noticing all other things she's done to herself (plastic surgery, all lifts/threads/fillers/hair tricks etc).

I was a pattern cutter for five years. I like Cos because of the clever pattern cutting. They look deceptively simple, but are quite complex. You need a degree in engineering to iron them. There’s nowhere on the Hight Street that does this apart from them.

So from a construction point not all their items are shapeless. Some of them are ingenious.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Just back to add my two pe’north.

Hemlines drop when the economy isn’t good. Hence prairie dresses.

1920’s postwar boom short hemlines
1930’s recession long hemlines
1950’s post war rationing ballerina length hemlines
1960’s boom mini skirts
1970’s recession maxi dresses
1980’s bubble, ra ra, minicrin
1990’s recession, long baggy dresses

Etc etc.

This is so interesting:)

@Cornisharchitect @Enough4me Yes I have left it too. You cant have fun threads on MN anymore it seems.
And to those who don't get light-hearted fun threads - I like quirky clothing and posted something I really like. Absolutely nobody agreed. But that is fine, I know my choices are quirky. Those who wear the clothes I posted photos of must know they are not mainstream choices.
And the middle-class thing is about who the marketing is aimed at. Every clothing firm has that demographic. So Bon Marche is largely aiming at older working-class women. It does not mean all older working-class women wear their clothes, but that is their target demographic.
I do wonder at the joylessness of not being able to gently laugh at yourself and others.