To let baby cry herself to sleep?

[Blackkitty]

10 months old. My partner and I have been through multiple times to try and settle her. She’ll fall asleep in my lap but wakes as soon as I transfer her into the cot. She’s had a bottle, clean bum, no temp, etc. I am exhausted. Should I shut the door and leave her to it?

[quote Justheretoaskaquestion91]@GrendelsGrandma

The most basic reading on the topic shows you that you are wrong.[/quote]
@Justheretoaskaquestion91

I've done quite a bit of reading on this, thanks. The problem is that we choose books to read for confirmation bias, so people who think sleep training is awful buy books that tell them the science says that, people who are willing to sleep train buy books that tell them it's ok.

I read Emily Oster who looked at the quality of scientific studies and found sleep training was potentially beneficial with no evidence of lasting harm.

Books that say 'your baby will be harmed if you don't go to them' are usually citing evidence of babies who were not responded to much at all, night or day. A kind of badly run orphanage scenario. Babies at home with loving parents is totally different.

Some of these posts are so upsetting! I can not believe people leave babies to cry alive for HOURS! Even moving to a different room so they can’t hear them :O I’m actually horrified!

[quote colourfulpuddles]@GrendelsGrandma She needs me for comfort. That’s just as important a need as any other.

I’m exhausted yes, but I don’t have a short temper and I’m not any less happy. Do I wish she would sleep more? Sure. But it doesn’t affect who I am as a person and I don’t get moody on little sleep.[/quote]
@colourfulpuddles She needs you for comfort every hour? I suspect she stirs, expects you to be there and wakes fully if you're not. If you could help her learn that it's ok if you're not 2cm away at all times, she'd probably stir in her sleep then drop off again.

If it works for you, fine. No problem with that. We're all different and have different limits depending on many factors including work and other stresses.

However, do you really need to go on a thread with a mother who's at her wit's end and tell her that your baby does the same but you don't mind?

@user1471481356

Some of these posts are so upsetting! I can not believe people leave babies to cry alive for HOURS! Even moving to a different room so they can’t hear them :O I’m actually horrified!

@user1471481356 - in my neighbours case, the neighbour who left the baby to cry for hours then told me that he had a lactose intolerance and their HV advised that this was why he might be crying a lot at night due to upset stomach. She had no idea and was feeding him normal milk before a sleep or in night.

I took my daughter into bed whenever she woke up in the night from about six months. By 14 months she was sleeping through in her own bed. She's now 3.5 and an amazing sleeper.

There's no definitive proof that CIO harms babies but with what I know about attachment it definitely doesn't feel right to let babies cry it out.

If you are exhausted then yes definitely. Baby will self soothe and you will be better after some much needed sleep.

podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/year-one/id1258053547?i=1000391081327

Dr Daniel Golshevsky

That said I don’t have much knowledge of cry it out or Ferber because I couldn’t do it. I still go to her because I feel she needs me.

Elizabeth Sloane also quotes a number of peer reviewed articles in her book. You’ll hear her talk about it here:

podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/year-one/id1258053547?i=1000390561041

She does say only sleep train for 6 month olds plus but again it didn’t work for us

@GrendelsGrandma Yes she does at the moment, because she’s a baby. It’s natural.

You can’t train it out of them. “Sleep trained” babies wake just the same amount, they just don’t cry out because they know nobody is coming to comfort them.

To be fair, we never let them scream for ages. We would come but keep everything very low key at night. They got fed and changed with the lights kept low and no chatting. We would always come but it was a bit of work to get us there and then it wasn't much fun. They soon worked out that fun things happened in the day but nothing much fun happened at night.

There are fashions in childrearing like everything else. I know we made some terrible mistakes with our children - like thinking they would value and prioritise the same things we did is an example that springs to mind. The things though is that the fashion has now swung to mothers (and it usually is mothers) being presented with the view that they must expect to have years of disturbed sleep and that this is sign of their great love of their child. I think so many mothers are just perpetually tired because of this. I am fully prepared to believe that there are children who are very difficult to get to sleep but teaching children to self-settle young is not a sign that you don't love your children either.

Interesting @Rangoon.

Relative of mine has 2 DC, first one always slept through well no matter what and now at almost 5 she’s quiet and shy. Her brother however who’s 18 months has been much more challenging for his DP, can’t just put him down and they’ve tried everything. Funnily enough he’s now sleeping better now and his mum says one thing she has now which she never had before is an eye mask to ensure no light and she also expects her DH to get up far more this time round with second child.

My own DM was from the Dr Spock years and I’m sure a lot of his knowledge would be considered unwise today.

My parents used to shut the door and leave me and my sister to cry for hours. Sometimes my dad even left the house and went for a drive, apparently. Still, we both went to university and have jobs so it can’t have affected us that much…

[quote colourfulpuddles]@GrendelsGrandma Yes she does at the moment, because she’s a baby. It’s natural.

You can’t train it out of them. “Sleep trained” babies wake just the same amount, they just don’t cry out because they know nobody is coming to comfort them.[/quote]
I read somewhere that we all wake at night multiple times, we just don't remember because we go back to sleep straight away most of the time.

I don't know how old your baby is. I wouldn't ever sleep training before a baby was over 6 months. With my first, I co-slept and bf through the night and at 13 months my back was done in and I was knackered and resentful. I never got more than two hours' sleep and even that was quite bad sleep because DD would want my nipple in her mouth which wasn't exactly comfortable. I'd waited and waited for her to need less from me in the night and I had an hour's commute to work which couldn't be done safely if I was up all night with her.

We did sleep training at 13 months where DH was next to DD the whole time, slowly moving the chair away, offering cuddles if she got properly distressed and soothing or stroking the rest of the time. It wasn't just ignoring her. Within a few nights she would go to sleep like that, then go back to sleep when she woke, then stay asleep all night. We did the same for DS at 9 months.

Like I say, if what you do works for you then that is very good. I agree that babies need comfort. They can also learn to feel safe and sleepy without needing a cuddle from an adult. There's a big difference between being up every two hours with a two week old or two month old versus a two year old.

At some point they need to learn to sleep without adult intervention. Not everyone has the mental, physical or financial resource to afford terrible sleep for an extended period. Before you start saying this is natural or what kids need and it's abusive to not get up with them every time, think if you'd say that to a single mother who had to work all day, or someone with another tiny baby to look after, etc etc. We don't live in a mythical village where there are relatives on hand to do everything for us so we can give our all to our babies. It might be sad, but it's the way it is.

@Rangoon

I come from a different generation. Mine were sleeping through in their own rooms from 6 and 8 weeks respectively. (They were the worst 6 and 8 weeks of my life.) One of mine regressed and started crying at about 18 months. My husband and I decamped to a bedroom on another floor for a couple of nights and that fixed that problem. You are the parent and you are in charge. There is a no way I would let a 10 month old disturb my sleep. I am preparing to be flamed and am putting on my flameproof overalls right now.

I too am from a different generation but I don't even possess flameproof overalls, my two were in their own room from day 1 which meant that we weren't disturbed by them and they weren't disturbed by us. Other than teething time we had no problems with sleeping. When we babysat our first grandchild who was used to her parents sitting with her for hours on end we put her into her cot and stood outside the door, she fell asleep almost immeditately.

@BendicksBittermints4Breakfast

You are supposed to be disturbed by your baby. That’s why they cry

When we babysat our first grandchild who was used to her parents sitting with her for hours on end we put her into her cot and stood outside the door, she fell asleep almost immeditately

Lol. This doesn’t mean you have some sort of baby whisperer touch; babies behave utterly differently when not with their primary caregiver. My children also sleep for my mother; probably because she doesn’t smell of milk so they know they won’t get any.

[quote Justheretoaskaquestion91]@BendicksBittermints4Breakfast

You are supposed to be disturbed by your baby. That’s why they cry[/quote]
What rubbish! You choose to misread what I wrote, the children were not ignored if they cried but they didn't need to have us there for hours and they were never left to cry themselves to sleep.

Some of these posts are sickening, as a SW I shouldn't be surprised as I see neglect and abuse cases regularly but I am actually shocked at how proud some people sound to be able to ignore their babies needs, proud that they put tiny babies in a different room to sleep totally alone just because they're too bloody lazy and selfish to care for them adequately, proud that despite the lack of care their children managed to get an education.

Yes things were different 30yrs ago but now we know better, we know that not sleeping in the same room hugely increases the risk of SIDS (you can't even manage 6mths with your baby near you?), we know more about attachment disorder and how this actually affects a babies brain development, we are more educated and should want to do better.

I'm not talking about gradual retreat, or soothing babies without picking them up which is a gentle based approach. I'm talking about the type of person who could dump a newborn baby in their own room from birth or ignore a baby crying for hrs on end, if your baby is crying and getting more distressed every single fibre of you should naturally want to be with them and comfort them.
I'm in my 40's, toddler who was a brilliant sleeper and 11mth old who's the worst sleeper ever, I'm exhausted and haven't had a full night sleep for a year but would neither me or DH would ever leave her to cry. It will pass.
Really disturbing reading some of these comments, to the point I'm unsure some of them aren't just looking for a reaction.

Is that all you need to be happy and drift off to sleep OP? A drink, a clean bottom and a normal temperature? Maybe her need for comfort goes beyond the basics, like all humans.

Reassuring to hear this from someone in your profession @MaryShelley1818

Hope your sleep improves in not too long. It’s bullshit that things have changed that much. I’m late 30s, it wouldn’t have occurred to my mum and dad to leave any of us to cry.

Hi there, my LO went through this. Most of the time it was either hunger or a bottom change. I would normally do the following: Change bum while bottle was warming up, feed. If that didn't work check LO was either to hot/cold. I use to check room temperature as well. If that wouldn't work if it was during the day, I would darken the room and sit on the chair beside LOs cot and just hold LO. I didn't say anything or rock LO just held LO in my arms. It seemed to work.

I did this with mine. Ultimately as a single working parent it came down to necessity and pure exhaustion.

The first was difficult to settle, wouldn't settle for ages and not unless he was fed - me in the room, picking him up, etc didn't work. I sleep trained when he was 7 months and he was a new baby, slept through within a week.

Second time DD was an easier baby in general, but after the 4 month sleep regression I started leaving her to cry for longer periods - not so she was hysterical - before coming in and soothing her and leaving again. Now we're at the point that she cries for about one minute after being put down and then puts her thumb in her mouth and goes to sleep.

With mine I had to weigh the pros and cons of my own ability to be a good parent while well-rested vs knackered, and also their happiness - I don't think a baby is happy or well-rested waking up multiple times at night either.

Sorry just saw the thread is actually about one night!!

Yes I would leave her for a bit to self settle x

:-(

I wouldn't, and didn't, sorry it's probably not what you want to hear. Eldest slept through in his own room from 18months, and now never wakes up unless ill. Youngest, age just turned 2yo still comes into our bed anytime between 12 and 3am and stays there. I'm in no hurry to change that; I get an evening and we all sleep fine. The day he stops wanting to sleep with us I will be upset 😂 stupid hormones. You will survive OP.