Covid. Permanent suppression or truly learning to live with it?

[GaolBhoAlba]

Interested to see where people are at, as we go into our third year of the suppression approach.

Its taken a while, but most have accepted that coronavirus is here to stay, and that restrictions serve only to suppress (they cant/wont eradicate). We hear the theory (and the phrase) 'learning to live' with it, but in practice we're nowhere near to learning to live with it. Indeed, we're still behaving as though we can eradicate it via repeated 'short term' suppression. Current thinking is as it was in March 2020 ie that if we suppress it for 'just a bit longer' it'll go away. It wont. Clearly we cant continue swinging between 'living with it' and 'suppressing it' - the uncertainty of a continued stop/start for business, education (planning life in general!) etc isnt feasible as a long term strategy; we need to decide one way or another.

So... are you in favour of accepting that our current way of living must become permanent and (obviously this list is not exhaustive) masks, distancing, limits on mixing, one way systems etc are how we must live now. Funding to support business/furlough is made permanent and we all pay extra to support same (because I suppose the alternative is hospitality businesses just close? Become part of the bygone era). Remote learning in schools is a fixture (and that will be based, not on illness, but on isolation rules) every time there is a peak (and funding will need to be, I dont know, redirected from schools to parents in order to allow this). WFH is made permanent and, again, funding redirected to allow same.
Or... are you in favour of truly 'learning to live' with it, relying on vaccine to do the heavy lifting (thus not counting cases and accepting, as with flu, hospitalisations and deaths), scrapping track and trace, scrapping isolation (thus allowing asymptomatic people - including teachers and NHS staff to live/go to work normally) and essentially returning to life as it was in 2019.

YABU - in favour of permanent suppression.
YANBU - in favour of truly learning to live with it.

As for ‘trust the science’ …. Which scientists do I trust?

The government ones who have supported these useless vaccine passports?

Or the other naughty ones who are described as ‘fringe epidemiologists’ who refute what the government say?

I trust no one right now.

I never thought I'd see the day when I agreed with George Osborne. Yet here we are. His social media has recently included some very sensible views. Including understanding the value (for lives, health, society - and economy) of simple vaccine passes. Perhaps it's temporary but maybe just maybe he's a good example of with age comes wisdom?

Vaccine passes. What's the big deal? You think 'They' are watching you? And if 'they' can't already. Our lives are full of ID. Driving licence, passport, national insurance number. We can't buy alcohol, cigarettes, or various other items without showing our ID.

Every single time you go online a tech company knows what you're doing.

Freedom? What freedom? Unless you're one of the small minority who lives entirety off-grid and eschewing all forms of modern technology (in which case you wouldn't be on here), you are not free.

We do not and have never lived in a free society. All manner of rules, restrictions, and banned items. In a society rights come with responsibilities. Don't like it, go off-grid.

Like I say, in a society rights come with responsibilities. Vaccine passes are like taxes. Not necessarily popular but an essential part of maintaining a healthy and functioning society.

I don’t want a vaccine passport and it not because I think anyone is spying on me???!!!!

I don’t want one, because I don’t want to be coerced to take a medical intervention I don’t want.

I’ve done two vaccines - I’ve done my bit. Now just leave me alone.

And my son, he’s in the highest risk age group for myocarditis and pericarditis…8 times is it higher risk after the vaccine than covid. Why should he be forced to have a vaccine he probably doesn’t need.

And when you say this stuff, you get censored, deleted…just incase someone else suddenly thinks ‘actually’.

I‘be done two years. That’s enough. I’ve made my decision and I’m just so glad that millions of people are feeling exactly the same as me.

Omicron is so much milder that we can start to hope this is the end... It will never go away completely but then neither has flu or the common cold. Fingers crossed this is the beginning of the end. I have a lot of faith in Dr John Campbell and am far more inclined to trust him than anyone paid by the government or by Big Pharma.

What drives me mad is that the same clown that said, "Let the bodies pile high to the ceilings of the morgues - we will NOT lockdown again" (Boris Johnson) is the same jackass now dancing around having fifty fits over the risks of the mildest strain we have seen yet. Couldn't be anything to do with the money already due to change hands, could it?! Ridiculous.

Masks, hand washing, carry on and hope for the best. We can't keep hiding away and living in limbo.. Well at least I can't! Really had enough now, I won't be getting any more jabs, either.
Enough is enough.

Bottom line is that the countries that can trust their governments are doing far better, no wonder we have so many anti vax nutters and such poor mental health - we genuinely have no idea when the next load of rubbish will be coming. Nothing this government says can be believed.

I just hope this "next announcement to the nation" that he has scheduled for tomorrow night isn't an exact repeat of the farce last year where he U-turned after one poxy day of school/work. We will see...!

I’m afraid I think at the moment then it will be a case of keep on keeping on and seeing if it burns itself out or becomes like ‘flu’ — something you might get once every couple of years— and yes some are very ill or die— but it’s not something stuff gets shut down for or limitations in place— I think another year it will be easier to see the trend the virus is taking— a vital thing though is surely getting more people vaccinated in countries with low vaccination rates —

You have just posted vaccine misinformation Dole.

The risk of myocarditis is many times greater from Covid infection than rare vaccine side effect. Incidentally the very rare side effects have almost all been mild and easily treatable. Which is not always the case with Covid.

Yes we need to keep society and the economy going as much as possible.

Hence the need for simple infection control mitigations. Masks, vaccines and vaccine passes, and good ventilation such as HEPA filters.

Just let it go and let people become immune. Locking up healthy people isn't the answer to a pandemic. The vaccines seem pretty useless too, how many boosters will there be, because a lot of people are approaching their fourth injection in less than a year, yet covid still spreads...

Anyway I'm sorry you're struggling with the idea of passes Dole. In an ideal world we'd all be able to opt out of societal requirements we don't like. Various rules and/or taxes. Maybe there's an amazing future time when that will be possible without huge consequence to others. It would be wonderful!

I hope you eventually find things easier.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Going forwards we need to focus on getting the rest of the world vaccinated. But we also have new drug treatments. Antivirals, and monoclonal antibodies like sotrovimab. We'll also have more knowledge and understanding of this still new disease.

PetsL The vaccines are not useless. Not at all. They've helped hugely with preventing serious illness and death in many people. Particularly the mRnA ones (Pfizer and Moderna).

It's nothing new to need boosters. We have an annual flu jab programme.

Obviously prevention (vaccines) is better than cure but like I say in the future we'll also have wider availability of the currently very short supply new treatments. We'll also have the rest of the world vaccinated - which reduces the chances of vaccine resistant mutations.

@DoleWhipFloat I agree, no vaccine passes and no more vaccines for me. Plenty of others feel the same, had enough of this crap. All lies 'just three weeks, just a vaccine, oh now a booster too, oh now masks again'. Ffs.

@Tealightsandd

Yes we need to keep society and the economy going as much as possible.

Hence the need for simple infection control mitigations. Masks, vaccines and vaccine passes, and good ventilation such as HEPA filters.

This was an interesting read. Particularly the bit about young men under 40.

www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

@Tealightsandd

You have just posted vaccine misinformation Dole.

The risk of myocarditis is many times greater from Covid infection than rare vaccine side effect. Incidentally the very rare side effects have almost all been mild and easily treatable. Which is not always the case with Covid.

Sorry I meant to quote this one.

Interesting vaccine review for under 40s.

www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

@Tealightsandd I'm glad you have confidence in the pharmaceuticals. I dont unfortunately, a fourth dose of a 'vaccine' in a year, not for me I'm afraid. I'd rather take my chances with my immune system which has never failed so far.

There's enough evidence to show that viruses eventually evolve into an either easily caught but mild or too severe and kill their hosts before it can spread. You don't know which it's going to before it happens

Yes there is a risk of very rare vaccine side effects. And an even greater risk from Covid infection.

From your link:

Second, in the same population, there was a greater risk of myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmia following SARS-CoV-2 infection.

I don't see why we should go back to fully 2019 standards.

Just for example with wfh. I have proven I can do my job at home just as well as in the office. I get a better work/life balance from home because I don't have a commute. Why should I go back into the office to constantly get everyone else's germs because they are disgusting? Give me a very good reason for that. People say 'oh but there's loads taking advantage and doing a crap job', they did a crap job in the office too. If people want to go back in to the office, let them, got no problem with that. But I don't want to be forced in when this way suits me far better.

You're never ever going to get 0 cases now. It's out there. We have to keep doing vaccines and keep up our hand washing (this is shockingly what people struggle with). Can't get 0 cases if people won't do simple stuff.

@Tealightsandd

Yes there is a risk of very rare vaccine side effects. And an even greater risk from Covid infection.

From your link:

Second, in the same population, there was a greater risk of myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmia following SARS-CoV-2 infection.

But the biggest risk came after the second mRNA vax, for men, under 40.

So, why shouldn’t my son, age 17, take the smaller covid risk?

@FreedomFaith

I don't see why we should go back to fully 2019 standards.

Just for example with wfh. I have proven I can do my job at home just as well as in the office. I get a better work/life balance from home because I don't have a commute. Why should I go back into the office to constantly get everyone else's germs because they are disgusting? Give me a very good reason for that. People say 'oh but there's loads taking advantage and doing a crap job', they did a crap job in the office too. If people want to go back in to the office, let them, got no problem with that. But I don't want to be forced in when this way suits me far better.

You're never ever going to get 0 cases now. It's out there. We have to keep doing vaccines and keep up our hand washing (this is shockingly what people struggle with). Can't get 0 cases if people won't do simple stuff.

If you’re genuinely doing a good job from home fine…but I’ve dealt with work from homers who really need to get back in the office, because the call wait times, service and attitude are crap.

If you’re genuinely doing a good job from home fine…but I’ve dealt with work from homers who really need to get back in the office, because the call wait times, service and attitude are crap.

I don't do a job where I speak to the general public though. Its all internal based, and the work is progressing as slowly as it would in the office (public sector).

@FreedomFaith

If you’re genuinely doing a good job from home fine…but I’ve dealt with work from homers who really need to get back in the office, because the call wait times, service and attitude are crap.

I don't do a job where I speak to the general public though. Its all internal based, and the work is progressing as slowly as it would in the office (public sector).

I personally have no issue with situations like this.

The article you posted says there is a bigger risk of the side effects from the vaccine for men under 40 - compared to women and older men. But, separately, the risk from Covid infection is even greater.

I can understand your son's concerns and I don't believe anyone should be forced to get a vaccine, but I hope he makes his decision based on accurate information (which is admittedly has been hard to access sometimes).