Covid. Permanent suppression or truly learning to live with it?

[GaolBhoAlba]

Interested to see where people are at, as we go into our third year of the suppression approach.

Its taken a while, but most have accepted that coronavirus is here to stay, and that restrictions serve only to suppress (they cant/wont eradicate). We hear the theory (and the phrase) 'learning to live' with it, but in practice we're nowhere near to learning to live with it. Indeed, we're still behaving as though we can eradicate it via repeated 'short term' suppression. Current thinking is as it was in March 2020 ie that if we suppress it for 'just a bit longer' it'll go away. It wont. Clearly we cant continue swinging between 'living with it' and 'suppressing it' - the uncertainty of a continued stop/start for business, education (planning life in general!) etc isnt feasible as a long term strategy; we need to decide one way or another.

So... are you in favour of accepting that our current way of living must become permanent and (obviously this list is not exhaustive) masks, distancing, limits on mixing, one way systems etc are how we must live now. Funding to support business/furlough is made permanent and we all pay extra to support same (because I suppose the alternative is hospitality businesses just close? Become part of the bygone era). Remote learning in schools is a fixture (and that will be based, not on illness, but on isolation rules) every time there is a peak (and funding will need to be, I dont know, redirected from schools to parents in order to allow this). WFH is made permanent and, again, funding redirected to allow same.
Or... are you in favour of truly 'learning to live' with it, relying on vaccine to do the heavy lifting (thus not counting cases and accepting, as with flu, hospitalisations and deaths), scrapping track and trace, scrapping isolation (thus allowing asymptomatic people - including teachers and NHS staff to live/go to work normally) and essentially returning to life as it was in 2019.

YABU - in favour of permanent suppression.
YANBU - in favour of truly learning to live with it.

Natty Don’t bother engaging with OP. You are quite correct they are wedded to their narrative and they haven’t engaged with any arguments to the contrary except to indulge in ad hominem attacks, like the ones you have experienced. Waste of time. Good article from Devi Sridhar in the Guardian recently about stepping away from social media which I must take notice of 😂 www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/01/death-threats-covid-disinformation-public-health-expert-pandemic?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Dole So you cannot tell the difference between a very very small number of serious vaccine reactions and a very very large number of serious short and long terms reactions to Covid? But you are beginning to come out with the anti vax rhetoric - bodily autonomy, you didn’t think that one up yourself. See the article I just posted. If you are down that social media black hole no point engaging……

@Emilyontmoor

Dole So you cannot tell the difference between a very very small number of serious vaccine reactions and a very very large number of serious short and long terms reactions to Covid? But you are beginning to come out with the anti vax rhetoric - bodily autonomy, you didn’t think that one up yourself. See the article I just posted. If you are down that social media black hole no point engaging……

Bodily autonomy is taken directly from the human rights act.

If I was anti vax, I wouldn’t have had vaccines 1 and 2. I’m anti continued vaccination. Look at Italy…3 boosters a year from now on.

As for Devi Sridhar, I find her self serving and not very interesting. She’s got her own agenda.

I’m not down any black holes. I’m simply ready to go back to normal life, free from restrictions and mandates.

I would rather live a short free life than like this for a thousand more years.

I would rather live a short free life than like this for a thousand more years. I’ve seen this one before too. Really? Have you really looked over that cliff and faced the reality of death? I have, given a 40 % chance of dying from a serious illness, when my children were young. It is pretty insulting to have people tripping this off their tongue when the reality is terrifying and you have to confront that fear and realise the reality is not as bad as it feels, viscerally, because of the attitudes of wider society that we are bought up with. Something too many people have had to experience before their time as a result of finding themselves struggling for breath or with all the other life threatening manifestations of Covid Perhaps take a little trip to a death cafe to really familiarise yourself with that experience before you trivialise it by adopting this rhetoric in pursuit of your Covid denying agenda….

@Emilyontmoor

I would rather live a short free life than like this for a thousand more years. I’ve seen this one before too. Really? Have you really looked over that cliff and faced the reality of death? I have, given a 40 % chance of dying from a serious illness, when my children were young. It is pretty insulting to have people tripping this off their tongue when the reality is terrifying and you have to confront that fear and realise the reality is not as bad as it feels, viscerally, because of the attitudes of wider society that we are bought up with. Something too many people have had to experience before their time as a result of finding themselves struggling for breath or with all the other life threatening manifestations of Covid Perhaps take a little trip to a death cafe to really familiarise yourself with that experience before you trivialise it by adopting this rhetoric in pursuit of your Covid denying agenda….

I’m sorry, but I think you have to acknowledge that we are all different and we really don’t know who’s closest to being right or wrong with this one. Maybe in fifty years we’ll have some idea.

The original question was, who wants to live with covid, vs permanent restrictions? My answer is that I’d rather live with it. That’s my prerogative.

I have found these past two years very difficult. I’ve ended up on sertraline. I no longer enjoy what I used to be able to enjoy. I feel somewhat detached from everything and no longer empathise. I may or may not be depressed, who knows?

We all have our own personal experiences which inform our current point of view. I am a little fed up with people demanding that we should all do the same, feel the same and anyone who has a somewhat different opinion is a horrible person.

I am only marginally in control of my own life at the moment (or that’s how I feel). What I can control, I want to control.

I respect your point of view. But it’s not my experience and I can’t feel what I don’t.

‘Short, free life’ is no more applicable than ‘live with it’. Your choices don’t, primarily, affect you personally.

How many additional deaths from covid and other things (due to healthcare not being available) would be acceptable to you, Dole? In order to have no restrictions?

@Dozer

How many additional deaths from covid and other things (due to healthcare not being available) would be acceptable to you, Dole? In order to have no restrictions?

Same as flu or any other transmissible disease.

The original question was, who wants to live with covid, vs permanent restrictions? My answer is that I’d rather live with it. That’s my prerogative.

Amen.

89% - pretty conclusive. Its been (on the whole 😂) an interesting read.

Learning to live with it isn't a synonym for 'ignore it and crack on'

It means targeted restriction when there are new variants producing large peaks, to spread and flatten them to reduce impact on health services (and economic damage of widespread sick leave)

So I don't think the YABU/YANBU options work - because yes we are going to have to live with it. But no, that doesn't mean an ending of restrictions.

We are still learning which restrictions give best benefit for most bearable cost, and when on the curve to implement them, and just about every country in the world is also doing this.

We have much lighter restrictions than many places, and I suspect it will stay that way in general.

But that's not the same as expecting to see the back of them for good.

In the UK approximately a little under 2000 have died due to vaccine reactions

Link?

It's a fast moving fluid situation and we maybe at the stage where it has gone milder in which case if it's more like a cold and doesn't attack our lung.. We can of course live with it.

But what if it turns again into a lung attacker and people are seriously ill on mass again what then?

Why do people think this is a black and white situation? Wanting answers, wanting it to be over??

YANBU.

We can't keep funding lockdowns and businesses etc. just look at the country 6 percent inflation, prices and taxes going through the roof. Not to mention how badly it's effected childrens mental health. We just have to live with it.

Get your jab if your vulnerable, and try and be a healthier Version of yourself and just use your common sense.

I get the vast majority of my information from the Gov. www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

OK, Dole, so you’d be OK with similar mortality numbers/rates to flu. Fair enough. Covid to date has been far higher numbers.

FWIW, I express my own opinion. I’m not trying to convince anyone. You think what you like. I refer back to the original question and these are just my opinions.

But that's not the same as expecting to see the back of them for good.

Well yes, it is, if by ‘restrictions’ you mean things beyond what we already do for diseases like measles and mumps when we get outbreaks of those.

Shutting down large parts of society and restricting people’s is what we do in an emergency, not when we’re living with something long-term.

@Iggly

We’ve hardly swung back and forth that much since the last lockdown was lifted. Not really. Introducing a mask mandate and vaccine passports hasn’t fundamentally changed what we can and can’t do.

I think that the scientific basis for sensible measures needs better explaining. People are too quick to dismiss because they lack understanding.

It would do us all well to appreciate that better ventilation and masks do a lot to reduce the spread of respiratory infections, not just covid. Washing hands and surfaces does naff all.

We also need better investment in our nhs. It’s not a coincidence that the nhs is creaking after 12 years of austerity.

Washing hands does naff all?!

I really hope the majority of the public have not gone back to their pre-covid hsvdwashing hsbits. I was shocked to find out how disgusting the British public can be when it comes to hand washing. 🤢🤮

@Dozer

OK, Dole, so you’d be OK with similar mortality numbers/rates to flu. Fair enough. Covid to date has been far higher numbers.

What about just now? What are the daily deaths from flu vs Covid, especially Omicron?

Are they even calculating flu? Are PCR tests distinguishing one from the other? CDC have ditched end of isolation PCR tests as they can’t distinguish between the two. What are the true values?

Washing hands can be a good thing for preventing many illnesses and still do naff all for covid.

‘Living with’ isn’t an appropriate phrase.

It’s about how many deaths (due to covid and other things) - and how much withdrawal of health services - voters will tolerate to get other benefits / reduce other costs (eg economic harm, high prices, education harm)

We will get closer to this pretty soon

I think restrictions will be over and testing situation will change

It’s hard to gauge during this omicron wave but it will be quite quick, then situation will be different

@MarshaBradyo

We will get closer to this pretty soon

I think restrictions will be over and testing situation will change

It’s hard to gauge during this omicron wave but it will be quite quick, then situation will be different

I certainly hope that you are correct.

Before the Christmas holidays I was told not to expect to be back in the classroom for around a month after the holidays ended.

I am delighted that the email came yesterday to tell us that we would be back this week.

That alone felt like a huge turning point for me. It’s just a shame about the masks, as they do make a huge negative impact of pupil engagement and understanding.

@Natty13

I wasn't insinuating you think covid is a cold. As I clearly said, I was giving an alternative to the posters on this and allll the other covid threads who say that it is. That's why I used another paragraph to say that I have met people with the same views as you. Because I have read your posts. And paragraphs are used to separate unrelated topics.

Also, just to correct you on another matter from a previous post: "Its also noteworthy that the NHS has not actually become overwhelmed at any point of the pandemic."

This is patently untrue. We had to make decisions literally less than a year ago about who to admit and who to let die in ED or wards because of resources. That has never happened in the history of the NHS. All non emergency (and lots of emergency but not immediately life threatening) operatoons were cancelled. Chemo was cancelled for God's sake. We were triaging based on resources so yes, we have been overwhelmed in every sense of the word. We have lost 60% of our senior nursing staff in one of the units I work in. Why is what do you think?

Is any part of your last paragraph due to continued inadequate funding/resources (staff, etc)?