Covid. Permanent suppression or truly learning to live with it?

[GaolBhoAlba]

Interested to see where people are at, as we go into our third year of the suppression approach.

Its taken a while, but most have accepted that coronavirus is here to stay, and that restrictions serve only to suppress (they cant/wont eradicate). We hear the theory (and the phrase) 'learning to live' with it, but in practice we're nowhere near to learning to live with it. Indeed, we're still behaving as though we can eradicate it via repeated 'short term' suppression. Current thinking is as it was in March 2020 ie that if we suppress it for 'just a bit longer' it'll go away. It wont. Clearly we cant continue swinging between 'living with it' and 'suppressing it' - the uncertainty of a continued stop/start for business, education (planning life in general!) etc isnt feasible as a long term strategy; we need to decide one way or another.

So... are you in favour of accepting that our current way of living must become permanent and (obviously this list is not exhaustive) masks, distancing, limits on mixing, one way systems etc are how we must live now. Funding to support business/furlough is made permanent and we all pay extra to support same (because I suppose the alternative is hospitality businesses just close? Become part of the bygone era). Remote learning in schools is a fixture (and that will be based, not on illness, but on isolation rules) every time there is a peak (and funding will need to be, I dont know, redirected from schools to parents in order to allow this). WFH is made permanent and, again, funding redirected to allow same.
Or... are you in favour of truly 'learning to live' with it, relying on vaccine to do the heavy lifting (thus not counting cases and accepting, as with flu, hospitalisations and deaths), scrapping track and trace, scrapping isolation (thus allowing asymptomatic people - including teachers and NHS staff to live/go to work normally) and essentially returning to life as it was in 2019.

YABU - in favour of permanent suppression.
YANBU - in favour of truly learning to live with it.

@TimBoothseyes

There's nothing any of us can do to fight that and having to watch it over and over/respect their choice affects you

And posting about it knowing that there may be people reading it who are still grieving and now have that image in their head (again, thanks for that), made you feel what? Because it sure as Hell wasn't compassion.

I agree and hope that posters respect your request.

@TheScenicWay

If anything, then this whole pandemic should have taught us that biggest difference in outcome is underlying health. I look forward to our government focusing on this as the next step and improving the outcomes for everyone.

I hope so too. Prevention is better than a cure.

I agree re overall health but also that people make changes without government help too.

We know what brings extra risk.

@DoleWhipFloat

I’m in favour of living with it and relying on my own immune system to do so.

So what about those with weakened immune systems?

Plenty of family members and Covid victims have gone public, to show the brutal reality. It must be very painful for them - and I have great respect for their brave act of compassion. Make no bones about it, enabling denial of reality, is the very opposite of compassion.

We know what brings extra risk.

Yes. Poor mental health, undiagnosed and late diagnosed physical health conditions, poverty - and particularly the public health housing and homelessness emergency.

It would be fantastic if the socioeconomic underlying causes were addressed.

True and this

Poor mental health

Hugely exacerbated by lockdowns

We used measures which made it harder to lower weight and risk and should be aware of that

@MarshaBradyo

True and this

Poor mental health

Hugely exacerbated by lockdowns

We used measures which made it harder to lower weight and risk and should be aware of that

Lockdown or the pandemic itself? How can you prove either way?

@MarshaBradyo

True and this

Poor mental health

Hugely exacerbated by lockdowns

We used measures which made it harder to lower weight and risk and should be aware of that

Yes. And equally the huge mental health impact on the millions of Others (and their loved ones).

Bereavement too is a key trigger or mental health struggles.

Mitigations are always the preferable first choice. Masks, vaccine passes, good ventilation including HEPA filters.

But of course prevention is better than cure.

Perhaps a miracle will happen and lessons really have been learnt.

Maybe just maybe next time the whole world will act to stop a would be pandemic from ever becoming one in the first place. Couple of months worldwide border control (with real quarantine where necessary for genuinely essential travel)...and abracadabra, no pandemic.

“ So what about those with weakened immune systems?”

What have they done in the past, when flu was circulating?

My aunty has lupus and my brother has rheumatoid. They don’t go out much.

They’ve always shielded to a certain extent and their lives have always sadly been more limited than mine. For instance, they can’t go abroad on nice holidays without serious planning, huge insurance premiums and acknowledgment of last minute cancellations.

I’ve only ever visited them when well…we don’t ever go there with the slightest hint of sickness. And still, they spend far more time than the average person in hospital.

Their lives have always been like this and they’ve never ever felt other peoples lives should be restricted to protect them.

Covid is here forever. F.O.R.E.V.E.R.
Do you think that everyone, young and old should now be restricted in ways, out of fairness perhaps? Duty?

@DoleWhipFloat Lots if things are restricted for people with more capacity out of safety/fairness/duty.

Speed limits on roads for example. Or there being laws against things like murder and physical assault.

Still it's very positive to see so much concern for mental health issues. It bodes well for the future. It's clearly a popular cause with the public - which should encourage improved funding from the government. On the underlying causes as much as the support.

For decades it's been a neglected and underfunded area. Both the causes and the help.

Far more long-term and devastating on mental health than temporary lockdowns is the ongoing public health housing and homelessness emergency.

The housing emergency lies behind so much of the issues. Poor physical as well as mental health. Poverty. Damaging children's access to stable educational opportunities and life chances.

Relevant too (given the major focus during the pandemic on the economy) is that the housing emergency costs the taxpayer many billions every year.

@MarshaBradyo

I agree re overall health but also that people make changes without government help too.

We know what brings extra risk.

Some people really do need guidance and education. It’s all very well having guidelines of ‘eat 5 portions of fruit and veg a day’ but how many people understand that it’s not only about being a healthy weight but that the vitamins in fruit and veg, especially vitamin c, helps our immune system to function well. We all know obesity is a risk and research showed that vitamin d levels had a link with severity of disease. Obese people are often low in vitamin d.

[quote BoopTheFloof]@DoleWhipFloat Lots if things are restricted for people with more capacity out of safety/fairness/duty.

Speed limits on roads for example. Or there being laws against things like murder and physical assault.[/quote]
This.

Forever. Mitigations. Perhaps yes. Like seat belts and child seats for cars. They don't stop all car crash deaths and disabilities but do reduce the risks. Likewise masks, vaccines, and good ventilation reduce the Covid risks. It would be no bad idea if we became more East Asian in our approach towards (all) viruses. Their civic minded culture - of mask wearing when sick out of courtesy and decency to others particularly the vulnerable, is well worth copying.

[quote BoopTheFloof]@DoleWhipFloat Lots if things are restricted for people with more capacity out of safety/fairness/duty.

Speed limits on roads for example. Or there being laws against things like murder and physical assault.[/quote]
Personally I don’t think driving your car at a given speed limit or wearing a seatbelt for 30 mins, can be compared to being:

Locked in our houses for months
Masked up all day every day
Made to carry a digital vaccine passport
Mandated vaccines that we have little long term data about
School closures again for months at a time
Inability to see a GP/ dentist etc

And the rest of it.

We're talking about the UK Dole

None of the things on your list have happened in this country. Perhaps you live somewhere else?

And it’s all irrelevant anyway because more and more people are refusing to comply. That’s where I am right now and so I’m finally experiencing some normality. Personally.

I’m unsure if I’m immune to covid right now, but I’m 100% immune to being called selfish.

@Tealightsandd

We're talking about the UK Dole

None of the things on your list have happened in this country. Perhaps you live somewhere else?

I live in Wales and am/have experienced ALL of those things.

School closures again for months at a time
Inability to see a GP/ dentist etc

Ok well except for the above inevitable consequences of unmitigated 'let it rip' Covid. Aside from mass short term illness, many HCP and teachers are off sick long-term. Long Covid and/or PTSD or burn out. And some are dead.

There's also the longer-term going back years pre pandemic mismanagement and underfunding issues.

@Tealightsandd

School closures again for months at a time Inability to see a GP/ dentist etc

Ok well except for the above inevitable consequences of unmitigated 'let it rip' Covid. Aside from mass short term illness, many HCP and teachers are off sick long-term. Long Covid and/or PTSD or burn out. And some are dead.

There's also the longer-term going back years pre pandemic mismanagement and underfunding issues.

I’m a teacher. Secondary. I would like to be in school as normal.

Are you on an electronic tag? Nobody else has been locked in their house in Wales.

You mention mandatory life and health saving well tested and trialled vaccines. Do you work for the NHS or in care? Slightly worrying if you do given your self confessed lack of trust in science and medicine.

Where I am, Wales, there’s been no respite from mask wearing; you can’t go anywhere without downloading an NHS covid pass first, lateral flow testing and going through the rigmarole of filling in the NHS test reporting forms. This has been constant.
At least in England you got the summer off.

I’m exhausted. So that’s it for me. I’m done.

I said I’m a teacher. I want to be in work as normal.

We were practically locked in our house.
Couldn’t travel more than 5 miles or be out more than about an hour for local exercise.
Only places open were supermarkets and they had half the aisles blocked off.
I’d call that pretty much locked up.

And finally, vaccine passes were introduced to force people into getting the vaccines. They weren’t for transmission. They were mandates by stealth.