Covid. Permanent suppression or truly learning to live with it?

[GaolBhoAlba]

Interested to see where people are at, as we go into our third year of the suppression approach.

Its taken a while, but most have accepted that coronavirus is here to stay, and that restrictions serve only to suppress (they cant/wont eradicate). We hear the theory (and the phrase) 'learning to live' with it, but in practice we're nowhere near to learning to live with it. Indeed, we're still behaving as though we can eradicate it via repeated 'short term' suppression. Current thinking is as it was in March 2020 ie that if we suppress it for 'just a bit longer' it'll go away. It wont. Clearly we cant continue swinging between 'living with it' and 'suppressing it' - the uncertainty of a continued stop/start for business, education (planning life in general!) etc isnt feasible as a long term strategy; we need to decide one way or another.

So... are you in favour of accepting that our current way of living must become permanent and (obviously this list is not exhaustive) masks, distancing, limits on mixing, one way systems etc are how we must live now. Funding to support business/furlough is made permanent and we all pay extra to support same (because I suppose the alternative is hospitality businesses just close? Become part of the bygone era). Remote learning in schools is a fixture (and that will be based, not on illness, but on isolation rules) every time there is a peak (and funding will need to be, I dont know, redirected from schools to parents in order to allow this). WFH is made permanent and, again, funding redirected to allow same.
Or... are you in favour of truly 'learning to live' with it, relying on vaccine to do the heavy lifting (thus not counting cases and accepting, as with flu, hospitalisations and deaths), scrapping track and trace, scrapping isolation (thus allowing asymptomatic people - including teachers and NHS staff to live/go to work normally) and essentially returning to life as it was in 2019.

YABU - in favour of permanent suppression.
YANBU - in favour of truly learning to live with it.

It's harder when it's our children. I understand. Much easier to take risks for ourselves! I don't believe in anyone being forced, but I do hope you feel slightly more reassured re the risk balance of rare side effects versus actual Covid infection.

It looks like omicron is displacing delta and it has done in south Africa, where there are low vaccination rates. Getting infected with omicron gives antibodies to delta according to research. Is there then any reason to push vaccines in those areas? Including the UK now. There are suggestions that omicron is acting like a ‘natural vaccine’.

Don't you have a link to the 'natural vaccine' evidence Scenic?

Also it's not all about death. And even if omicron is more mild, it is more transmissible - which means more hospitalisations (causing even more of an NHS backlog) and mass staff sickness. There are parts of the UK going without bin collections due to staff illness.

Remember too Long Covid.

Here's some useful information from the CDC on vaccines and why it's still worth getting one even if you've had a previous Covid infection.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

Emerging evidence shows that getting a COVID-19 vaccine after you recover from COVID-19 infection provides added protection to your immune system. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.

I did say suggestions about ‘natural vaccine’, not evidence.
There’s some preliminary research out of South Africa currently.
www.ahri.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/MEDRXIV-2021-268439v1-Sigal_corr.pdf

Well thank you @Tealightsandd
That’s a nice post. I appreciate your understanding.

For now, I’m going with my gut and that says no more vaccines. Let’s see how this pans out over the next year or so and I can reevaluate then…see whether there are any excess deaths in certain age groups or other concerning findings over the duration. If boosters are proven to be 100% safe, I’ll hold out both arms.

All the best.

I wish you all the best too Dole

I would be interested to see whether those refusing boosters change their minds if restrictions on those not fully vaccinated become more widespread.

I personally have no issue with situations like this.

That's good. But so many do. They seem to think that because they either have to work in an office or want to, that the rest of us should. That's not a good enough reason. Why should I be forced into a working situation I don't want to be in? I'm not forcing them to wfh, they can do what they like. But this suits me.

Baffles me that some refuse change simply because its change. There's no reason for it other than 'that's not how we used to do it'. If we all thought like that, we'd all still be living in caves.

@FreedomFaith

I personally have no issue with situations like this.

That's good. But so many do. They seem to think that because they either have to work in an office or want to, that the rest of us should. That's not a good enough reason. Why should I be forced into a working situation I don't want to be in? I'm not forcing them to wfh, they can do what they like. But this suits me.

Baffles me that some refuse change simply because its change. There's no reason for it other than 'that's not how we used to do it'. If we all thought like that, we'd all still be living in caves.

I can’t do my job from home (teacher) and actually, this pandemic has taught me that I love being in work. The kids (teens) keep me young :)

But I can understand for some, working from home has been beneficial. If the job can be done from home and employer and employee are happy, I see that more as a ‘progression’ rather than a restriction.

Perhaps some people who don’t enjoy their jobs resent this step? A shame if that’s simply the case.

As I said, I’ve also had some pretty crappy service from people working from home, so perhaps it’s also bad experiences…there will always be a few who abuse the system.

I open to progress. I’m just not open to further restrictions.

Good luck and I hope you get to keep working in a way you enjoy.

@TeeBee

I'm in favour of removing restrictions, removing isolation and instead funding the NHS properly to deal with the percentage of people who will end up hospitalised.

This

@DoleWhipFloat

“ So what about those with weakened immune systems?”

What have they done in the past, when flu was circulating?

My aunty has lupus and my brother has rheumatoid. They don’t go out much.

They’ve always shielded to a certain extent and their lives have always sadly been more limited than mine. For instance, they can’t go abroad on nice holidays without serious planning, huge insurance premiums and acknowledgment of last minute cancellations.

I’ve only ever visited them when well…we don’t ever go there with the slightest hint of sickness. And still, they spend far more time than the average person in hospital.

Their lives have always been like this and they’ve never ever felt other peoples lives should be restricted to protect them.

Covid is here forever. F.O.R.E.V.E.R.
Do you think that everyone, young and old should now be restricted in ways, out of fairness perhaps? Duty?

Idk I suppose I'm just living with the enormity of living with an immunosuppressed baby. Before omicron I didn't worry about catching covid but now the prospect of basically having to shield because the restrictions aren't managing the spread is overwhelming.

He's been hospitalised from complications of the common cold so it's fine saying "we don't see them" or "they don't go out much" but as a family we can't do that. I will eventually have to go back to work as a nurse in any case, but if covid still conurbations to circulate at these levels it would be very difficult to justify the risk to him.

I know we shouldn't impose significant restrictions simply for 1 baby but I suppose what I'm trying to say is not everyone who is immunosuppressed lives alone or can opt out of everyday life.

I quite enjoyed learning to live with it. A week to chill out with no interruptions and at no point did it feel more than a very mild sniffly cold. Was having a few cheeky glasses of red every day and guzzling the chocolate.

I'm in favour of removing restrictions, removing isolation and instead funding the NHS properly to deal with the percentage of people who will end up hospitalised.

But how will we train enough doctors/nurses even with limitless cash? If they've struggled already then surely it would only get many times worse with no restrictions/isolation.