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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Prince Andrew

999 replies

Tevion28 · 01/01/2022 23:58

Do you think guilty or innocent

OP posts:
Roussette · 02/01/2022 12:16

@RoyalFamilyFan

PA took JE and GM to Balmoral, Sandringham, Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle.
They stayed at all of them.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 12:17

@Roussette

PA probably went to see JE in person to break off the friendship rather than do it over the phone because phone calls can be hacked or recorded

No.
He said he did it in person because it is 'the honourable thing'. Oh, and by the way, he spent 4 days there at the time, and went to a dinner party in his honour.
Of course he could've made a phone call if he wanted. Or he could've ghosted him.
He went for one last time out of choice.

I hadn't realised Andrew spent 4 days there and went to a dinner party.
chaosrabbitland · 02/01/2022 12:17

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youvegottenminuteslynn · 02/01/2022 12:17

@SecretSpAD

Your poor sister, I am so sorry 😞

I suppose those saying 'but VR was smiling in that picture!' would look at your sisters wedding pictures and say 'but she married him, she was willing!' because they are misogynist idiots.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 12:17

[quote Roussette]@RoyalFamilyFan

PA took JE and GM to Balmoral, Sandringham, Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle.
They stayed at all of them.[/quote]
Not disputing that. But is there any proof?

Kennykenkencat · 02/01/2022 12:18

@Roussette

She was 17 so not underage?

I'm not sure how many times it has to be said on these threads, the fact she was 17 is irrelevant and in NY that was underage, and a trafficked person is trafficked irrelevant of age.

There are some awful PA apologists and victim blamers on this thread. Shocking.

As for not remembering you saw Prince Charles in a Pizza Express. Come off of it. Most people would be dining out on that for decades. I saw Wayne Sleep stood outside some chain or other once, I still talk about it now and it was 20 years ago!

Sometimes you have to look at the reality and decide if it is worth the time and expense or just walk away

Really? Should people just walk away from these abhorrent crimes of trafficking young girls ? What about the three 12 year olds shipped to JE from Paris for a birthday present? There were hundreds of victims whose lives have been changed forever because of this and VG is highlighting something that needs attention. For that I give her credit.

I saw the Queen mother once in a random place. No one took a blind bit of notice of her. I only realised it was the Queen mother because I bumped into her and Dh who was walking behind saw the security team move towards me but quickly realise I wasn’t a threat. I can’t even remember what decade that was.

I used a certain supermarket for a while and saw a couple of very famous singers in their doing their shopping. A very famous actor used to drink in a pub we occasionally went to. We saw a presenter buying a tv from Tesco once. Again no one took a blind bit of notice . No one ran off looking for the paparazzi or phoned the tv companies to say that they had seen X and Y doing their shopping in the local Sainsbury’s like they did every Thursday night or that Z was having a pint in a certain pub. Or got out their phones to take photos. Or do they because I cannot understand the big deal. It would come across as rude. Certainly wouldn’t be indelibly printed on my mind.

Dd has met through her work many famous people. Most of the time she doesn’t know who they are.
She did meet someone once in a completely different setting who was very short and slim and she knew she had seen him before and he was well known. She asked someone else who he was and they told her. Dd thought he was a jockey.

She is probably the age of the waiting staff in Pizza Express. She hasn’t a clue who PA is.

No one is saying that people cannot pursue civil cases and maybe there is better evidence for some cases.
But in this case given the limited jurisdiction of the court and the lack of evidence. Wasn’t VG not used in the Maxwell trial because her statement had so many holes in it. Even if she goes through with the trial and wind and is awarded millions, the likelihood of her not seeing a penny is almost guaranteed.
It doesn’t matter how much an American court awards her it means nothing in the U.K.
At best there will be an out of court settlement with her agreeing that PA has no blame and she cannot pursue this further or give evidence against him or speak about him ever. Which sort of puts a dent in the argument that she is doing this as some sort of selfless act to bring attention to “wrong doing”

At worse she is facing bankruptcy and putting both hers and her families lives on hold for years.

It doesn’t matter how aggrieved or victimised you feel, short of going through a no win no fee legal firm if the reality is that even if you win the case the person who the money is coming from is not under the same rule of the countries court system and your legal bills are so high that you will bankrupt your family then I don’t think people should pursue civil cases at any cost.

I think either VG’s lawyers are either no win no fee and are hoping for a payoff before it reaches the courts or her lawyers haven’t made it clear that winning the case could be a Pyrrhic victory as there will be no money, just their bill to pay or someone else is footing the bill for this.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 12:19

If you want to blow open a sex trafficking ring, it makes sense to go for someone high profile. If they are convicted, they are more likely to give up other names to reduce any sentence and thus blow the whole thing wide open.
As a strategy it is the best way to tackle a trafficking ring. Otherwise you just pick up a few low hanging fruit, but nothing changes.

Roussette · 02/01/2022 12:20

Yes. Beatrice's party, Windsor Castle.

Shooting weekend at Balmoral, with the photo in the Queen's log cabin.

Buckingham Palace, GM sat on a throne, no idea if she stayed there or not.

Sandringham, definitely a weekend there.

Please don't ask me to provide proof and links, it's all out there if you look. In the past I have provided links

Roussette · 02/01/2022 12:21

If you want to blow open a sex trafficking ring, it makes sense to go for someone high profile. If they are convicted, they are more likely to give up other names to reduce any sentence and thus blow the whole thing wide open

Totally agree but according to some shes just doing it as a 'nice little earner'

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 12:21

@Kennykenkencat Prince Andrew alleges he was at Pizza Express taking his daughters to a friends birthday party there. Are you really saying none of the parents at the birthday party knew who Beatrice and Eugenie were or who their dad was? Or that none would remember he was there?
I know who was at my children's birthday parties.

DuncinToffee · 02/01/2022 12:22

I don't think Epstein and Maxwell did 'low profile', except for staff.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 02/01/2022 12:22

@chaosrabbitland

its called that thing called principles . i would have thought a real victim would pursue justice regardless of how much they were wrangling out of the verdict

I hope you're never a victim of rape. As someone who has been, I'm reporting your previous victim blaming posts. They are disgusting. Your views would change if you had been a victim but obviously I hope you never have to go through it.

Vapeyvapevape · 02/01/2022 12:22

The Pizza Hut thing is a red herring , although why he would lie about such a non event is anyone’s guess, because he could have gone to the nightclub after. It is possible to go to 2 places in one day .

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 12:23

@Roussette

Yes. Beatrice's party, Windsor Castle.

Shooting weekend at Balmoral, with the photo in the Queen's log cabin.

Buckingham Palace, GM sat on a throne, no idea if she stayed there or not.

Sandringham, definitely a weekend there.

Please don't ask me to provide proof and links, it's all out there if you look. In the past I have provided links

Thanks Rousette. No need for links, I can find the articles myself. I do remember about the throne now you mention it.
CathyorClaire · 02/01/2022 12:23

PA probably went to see JE in person to break off the friendship rather than do it over the phone because phone calls can be hacked or recorded

If all he was doing was breaking off the friendship why would that matter?

chaosrabbitland · 02/01/2022 12:23

@Roussette

Some of the posts on here are disgusting.

I'm going to start reporting them.

so the op has asked a simple question and its obvious there would be discussion , but when you see the ones you dont like you are going to get them cancelled out because they get your back up , sorry to say just because you cancel them out it doesnt change peoples opinions and we are entitled to have free speech or so i thought , thats the whole point of the post , not that you and others get to wipe out opinions you disagree with so the whole post is full of andrew is guilty and scum and virginia is without doubt a victim , but then thats obviously the only thing that makes you content is seeing it all like that without any differing opinions , how pathetic and sad
Roussette · 02/01/2022 12:24

its called that thing called principles . i would have thought a real victim would pursue justice regardless of how much they were wrangling out of the verdict

And that's what she's doing. Bear in mind Maria Farmer went to the FBI decades ago. They didn't listen.
This is the only way to get people to listen.

p.s. you might not think she is a 'real victim'. The verdict against Maxwell disagrees with you.

CaveMum · 02/01/2022 12:24

It’s been well documented that Epstein conveniently tied his estate up in such a way that none of his victims could ever sue for damages. Why the hell not go after the other perpetrators?

The old “she’s only after money/fame” accusation is often trotted out in these cases (see also R Kelly, Bill Cosby, Michael Jackson, etc). To me it makes no sense - would any of us really happily have our names and reputations publicly trashed just for some cash? Knowing that whispers would follow you everywhere, vitriol from those who don’t believe you? Knowing you’d probably struggle to find a job/build new relationships for the rest of your life?

Roussette · 02/01/2022 12:25

@chaosrabbitland

I will not answer personal attacks. However, you must know your posts are awful to assume that I mean you

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 12:25

@CathyorClaire depends what you said I expect.
I am never going to talk to you again because of the sex trafficking conviction - no issue if leaked.

I cant talk to you in public after your conviction because it would look bad for me - not good as it is simply about how it looks.

I cant talk to you in public again and you had better tell anyone what I did - terrible for Andrew.

chaosrabbitland · 02/01/2022 12:26

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Vapeyvapevape · 02/01/2022 12:26

@CathyorClaire because he wasn’t breaking off the friendship but probably wanted to discuss things that if recorded and leaked would have been very damning.

Roussette · 02/01/2022 12:27

Ihope you're never a victim of rape. As someone who has been, I'm reporting your previous victim blaming posts. They are disgusting. Your views would change if you had been a victim but obviously I hope you never have to go through it

Exactly.

RoyalFamilyFan · 02/01/2022 12:27

@Roussette

If you want to blow open a sex trafficking ring, it makes sense to go for someone high profile. If they are convicted, they are more likely to give up other names to reduce any sentence and thus blow the whole thing wide open

Totally agree but according to some shes just doing it as a 'nice little earner'

As a strategy, what she is doing makes sense. She wants to destroy the while sex trafficking ring.
Alondra · 02/01/2022 12:27

Not disputing that. But is there any proof?

The relationship between Maxwell, Epstein and Andrew goes back a long time.

www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a33252627/ghislaine-maxwell-prince-andrew-royal-family-relationship/

Im sure there are many pictures that will come out in the US court case that have been suppressed in the UK for publication.

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