To do nothing about tenant?

[MyBurdenisHeavy]

Hi folks, happy new year.

We have a flat in London that was used for work 2/3 nights a week. Been WFH since pandemic and started to rent it out a year ago. It’s not typically a “family” building. Mainly young professionals. Anyway we were approached by a company who offered to lease it from us and they would manage the letting. Turns out they have a contract with a homeless charity or such and had a few units in our building housing homeless families during the pandemic. No issues there - all good. Fast forward a year and we’re being contacted by other tenants/owners who managed to get our number, pleading with us to do something about the people in our flat (a mother and 3 boys I understand - 2.5, 4 and 6). Apparently they are making the lives of the people below them (at least 2 flats based on the way they are laid out) an utter misery - stomping, running, jumping from morning to night I’m told. I contacted the company we leased it to and they said that they had received some complaints a few months ago and called out to talk to the family a few times. The complaints kept coming and ultimately they said the woman explained that the children were just playing and being kids so she didn’t know what they wanted her to do. They told me the kids were probably a bit boisterous alright but ultimately that’s part of apartment living and the neighbours just have to accept there’s a family living there and get on with it. The complaints kept coming apparently but they had closed the matter and are no longer responding to them - they told me there is a legal route the other residents could take if they felt strongly about it, but it rarely happens so just sit tight and don’t worry about it.
I’m now up the walls with anxiety and guilt and don’t know what the right thing to do is.
It’s abundantly clear that the woman cannot or will not control the kids (no judgement - just stating fact that it will not be resolved from that side). So the options are to carry on and leave things as they are - thereby upsetting the neighbours and ruining their home life (their words), or terminate the lease (I can do this in 4 months) and cause distress to the woman and her kids.
AIBU to do nothing, stay out of it and leave the family stay there?

Buy them one of those mini indoor trampolines?

You absolutely need to sort this out. You cannot assume that this is normal noise and the neighbours are whiners, just because that’s what you want to hear. Lettings companies are absolutely notorious for sticking their fingers in their ears when it comes to problems because they don’t want to have to sort any problems themselves or risk having to evict a tenant and there being a void period where they’re not getting any rent. That would particularly be the situation here where they are actually the tenant and are making their money by subletting.

Having lived with the problems caused by absentee landlords who couldn’t give a toss as long as they were being paid, and who assumed that their nightmare tenants were nothing of the sort, please don’t be one of these people.

Maybe the fanily need more suitable accommodation with outdoor space and your neighbours need some respite.from the noise.

You realy should do something.

I think I’d look into proper noise deadening floor and wall measurements if you can afford it and wish to keep tenant. I don’t think carpets in themselves are enough to absorb noise. Is she an otherwise good tenant? Speak to her or get the company and charity to speak to her seriously and don’t just accept weak excuses from her, say you will have no alternative due to complaints from other residents if the noise isn’t kept under control. Maybe try mediation.

If the noise isn’t reduced significantly within eg 2 months then look to terminate her tenancy agreement.

My friends when kids often lived in houses divided into flats and had to be quiet or not run and jump and I’ve had similar issues when renting too with noise from other flats.

we’ve had 3 people contact us - 2 flats directly below and another one below but not directly iykwim. I was saying it’s clear that the woman won’t change the kids behaviour as there have been apparently dozens of approaches directly to her and via the company and nothing improved so that appears to be a non runner.

I think that makes it clear there is an unusual level of noise- one neighbour can be oversensitive but three is unlikely.

I would offer the company the opportuity to resolve the issue (presumably by them moving her or giving her notice) and give your own notice if not. If you do stick with this tenant they need to understand that you expact them not to ignore complaints again.

@Sinner10 thank you for that information. In fairness to them they did tell us upfront what type of lets they do - anything from short term corporate lets to emergency accommodation and housing homeless families. It’s in the contract that they return the flat to previous condition etc so we had no issue

But I was trying to keep an open mind about family noise and what’s reasonable

If you could visit the neighbours when the noise is going on you might get a better idea.

The way one of the neighbours described it was it’s like a bunch of kids playing a game of soccer from 8am to 11pm

If this is the case then the noise is way outside the bounds of reasonable and if you can't improve it with sound insulation you need to get the family to leave.

[quote MyBurdenisHeavy]@Sinner10 thank you for that information. In fairness to them they did tell us upfront what type of lets they do - anything from short term corporate lets to emergency accommodation and housing homeless families. It’s in the contract that they return the flat to previous condition etc so we had no issue[/quote]
Oh that's good then.

As you can imagine it can be difficult persuading Landlords to agree to rent properties to us because they feel it maybe nothing but problems. I'm not sure why they're not bending over backwards to sort this out for you. FYI they will be getting an income way more than the monthly rent they pay you from it.

Regardless of whether or not it's just normal family noise, if you are up the wall with anxiety and guilt you can't let it continue. It's causing distress to you. Inform the agency that you will be terminating the lease in 4 months as you are entitled to do.

It does sound like the flat is not suitable for the family. It's too bad they will have to move again, but ultimately it's not your responsibility to house them.

Give notice to terminate lease. Just because she's a single mum doesnt mean you have to expect less of her in terms of her kids behaviour?! Millions of other single parents out there with perfectly well behaved children. If you are getting constant complaints its likely it goes beyond normal noise levels.

@Ginjanotaninja

You need to pull in some big girl pants and tell the agency they need to sort it or else you are terminating the tenancy. If the woman is on a license or being housed there as a homeless applicant, then they ( agency/Council) can move her almost immediately, the quickest I've known was about an hour and I have worked in homelessness/ housing options. You are being taken for a muppet.

this. company are being idle buggers. having children is not a free pass to make neighbours lives hell.

Tbh if it was one neighbour complaining about the noise I’d agree that maybe it’s just kids playing normal noise and the neighbour is over sensitive. The fact that it’s more than 1 and it’s not just complaining they want them gone is that it’s a bit more than general day to day noise . I’m a bit shocked that the company have closed the matter so basically they can be terrible neighbours but it’s tough . I think you need to look into this the company need to do more or if you evict this neighbour who knows the next tenant they put in is equally as bad .

I think it’s completely irresponsible of the company tbh.

You need to act on behalf of the other people in your building as this company do not give a shit about them, they just want their cut and an easy life.

The company will just have to find this woman somewhere else to live.

Get back to the company and insist they do some soundproofing or you will terminate your contract with them. Such companies make absolute fortunes from homelessness and will be getting many times from the council what they are paying you.

We lived in the flat above DH's business (office and retail premises) when our DC were little - we had 3 under the age of 5. And when they were playing/running about, it sounded like the ceiling was going to fall down - even though we'd put insulation in between the joists/floorboards and extra underlay under the carpet to try and avoid this. As a result, I had to try and keep them quiet. It wasn't easy, especially on wet days but I made sure that we went for a long walk everyday to the park so they weren't like caged animals and went to soft play/toddler groups/the library/visited family.

You can control kids noise, and it doesn't have to cost anything to do so. I think if it was 1 neighbour I'd be open minded, but 3?? You need to take action. Other people's noise can seriously damage your mental health.

I mean I can see both points of view really. Noisy neighbours are annoying, for example I think letting your dog bark it’s head off, is the epitome of disrespectful, but of course there is something that can be done about that via the council.

Whilst I understand the noise will be annoying, they are young children, it’s not like they are adults. My little boy is loud in every way and I’m constantly trying to make him realise there are others in the house but he just can’t grasp the concept.

Always running or jumping, when he goes up the stairs you’d think there was a herd of elephants in the house.

Now we live in a detached house so obviously it’s fine, but I something think, thank god, because I’d hate to have neighbours. I’m always telling him to slow down, more because I’m worried he’ll hurt himself but it goes in one ear and out the other. He does have a couple of conditions it still…

So the kids might have disabilities or she maybe is just overwhelmed keeping them sitting still if they’re active kids.

I do think these are things to consider where you live in a flat….

It’s apartment life, it’s not like it’s someone having parties, it’s kids being kids.

You need to check what the lease of the property says. The lease by which you own it, not the lease by which you let it.

Often leases have provision for dealing with a nuisance caused by inhabitants of other properties in the building and in some cases the ultimate sanction is that the freeholder can terminate your lease so you no longer own the property. There is no reason whatsoever why you should risk actually losing your property just because the letting firm tells you evicting a single mother is a bad look.

Can the local authority investigate the noise nuisance?

*nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

Terminate the lease. Its not fair on the other tenants, she's been warned about the noise and doesn't care so give her notice. She should have thought about where she would live before and controlled her kids.*

If she has been housed by a homeless charity, which is a pretty awful situation to be in in the first place, she would almost definitely have had no choice.

Yabu. I'm a single parent and I live in a flat with young children. My neighbours have never complained about me or my kids even though I'm on a middle floor. I make sure the kids don't run and jump etc inside as I know the noise would annoy the neighbours.

Equally my neighbours don't play music late at night etc which would wake my kids. It is a good and respectful situation!

Your tenant is rude and disrespectful and you should do something about it.

@user290814356289

Going against the majority here.

Living underneath kids can be difficult.

Can you put in sound proof underlay under all the flooring to reduce the noise?

Kids can make typical noise between the hours of 7.30am and 11pm or roundabout those times.

I feel for mum having 3 young kids in an upper flat and neighbours complaining constantly. It must be very stressful. Throw in the fact she's a single mum and also accessing housing through a homeless charity because of circumstances. what exactly is she supposed to do. Have you tried getting a 2.5 year old to sit still and be quiet? It sounds like the other neighbours are not used to living near a family with small children.

It's not so easy to just walk into another house. I don't think people realise that you won't just be offered somewhere.

If I were the neighbours being regularly disturbed by the 'kids being kids' excuse for anti-social behaviour I would be having the noisiest TV or music playing once the woman wants her dear children to be asleep.

Yabu. Do something. As a flat you don't own leasehold so leaseholder might do something about you of your careful.

Be careful if your making vulnerable people homeless you must do it correctly. Get some advice - sadly the law isn’t on the landlords side .

I think it’s hard to tell how reasonable it is to do nothing until you’ve actually been there. The fact the other residents are used to it being all professionals and no families doesn’t actually give them a right to have that sort of environment constantly. And saying the family need to move to somewhere with a garden (as a previous poster suggested) is a bit cloud cuckoo land in London. But inconsiderate neighbours and families with out of control kids are a nightmare.

I’m just wondering how much it is a matter of the kids running riot and how much it’s a matter of the neighbours not being used to there being children around at all. I think there is a lot of pressure on families to try to make children seem invisible which is costly on families (who already struggle compared to people without children), unfair and bad for the next generation. But ultimately these people are your neighbours and your relationship with them may well go on much longer than your relationship with the leasing company.

So I wouldn’t be as quick to jump on the bandwagon to insist the company kick them out. I’d be inclined to go and see for myself first.

One thing that sprang to mind reading your OP was - if this was a flat you just used for work a few nights a week, how big is it? Is part of the problem that they’ve put a family of four in a one or two bedroom flat?

If terminate the lease as I don’t think it’s fair to let one family make the lives of others around them a misery. She’s had warnings already. The other neighbours sound desperate.

I once lived in a flat where next door let their toddler run up and down screeching from 10pm-3am, on a hard floor, banging toys on the shared wall and making it shake. I had to move as the sleep deprivation was making my job impossible.

Maybe this mum and her boys would be better housed in a different flat or house more suited to their needs.