To do nothing about tenant?

[MyBurdenisHeavy]

Hi folks, happy new year.

We have a flat in London that was used for work 2/3 nights a week. Been WFH since pandemic and started to rent it out a year ago. It’s not typically a “family” building. Mainly young professionals. Anyway we were approached by a company who offered to lease it from us and they would manage the letting. Turns out they have a contract with a homeless charity or such and had a few units in our building housing homeless families during the pandemic. No issues there - all good. Fast forward a year and we’re being contacted by other tenants/owners who managed to get our number, pleading with us to do something about the people in our flat (a mother and 3 boys I understand - 2.5, 4 and 6). Apparently they are making the lives of the people below them (at least 2 flats based on the way they are laid out) an utter misery - stomping, running, jumping from morning to night I’m told. I contacted the company we leased it to and they said that they had received some complaints a few months ago and called out to talk to the family a few times. The complaints kept coming and ultimately they said the woman explained that the children were just playing and being kids so she didn’t know what they wanted her to do. They told me the kids were probably a bit boisterous alright but ultimately that’s part of apartment living and the neighbours just have to accept there’s a family living there and get on with it. The complaints kept coming apparently but they had closed the matter and are no longer responding to them - they told me there is a legal route the other residents could take if they felt strongly about it, but it rarely happens so just sit tight and don’t worry about it.
I’m now up the walls with anxiety and guilt and don’t know what the right thing to do is.
It’s abundantly clear that the woman cannot or will not control the kids (no judgement - just stating fact that it will not be resolved from that side). So the options are to carry on and leave things as they are - thereby upsetting the neighbours and ruining their home life (their words), or terminate the lease (I can do this in 4 months) and cause distress to the woman and her kids.
AIBU to do nothing, stay out of it and leave the family stay there?

Thanks for the head wobble everyone - I really do empathise with the neighbours and feel a bit more emboldened in tackling this

The threat of a PR disaster would get my back up, big time.

I would be very pissed of with being threatened.

You need to get tough if they are making life hell for others.

There is family life and not giving a damn.

This is a horrible post.

You are not the LL, the company is, so this is not (directly) your problem. The company was perfectly right to be wary of evicting a mother and 3 young children just before Christmas. And the mother is probably right saying the kids are just being kids. As the company said, there is a legal route the downstairs tenants can pursue if they really believe the behaviour is unreasonable. Let them go for that and it will be investigated legally to determine. It will very probably turn out that nothing really unreasonable is going on, and they just don’t like living below children. Well too bad. They should buy a house if they don’t want upstairs neighbours.

There should absolutely not be a situation in which families are excluded from apartment living because downstairs neighbours don’t like it.

In any case, you should stay out of it. As above, you are not the LL. Your contract is with the company, not the family.

Most flat leases have the words the ''lessee has the right to quiet enjoyment of the property''.
I have lived under noisy children in a flat in London where there was also a maid, a helper and a chauffeur and occasionally the parents. Noise only stopped when they moved to Monaco (they were not locals and bribed the caretakers).

Is what the family doing objectively inappropriate?

If it's just normal children's noise I'd be inclined to ignore the issue but if it's antisocial behaviour then I think giving notice is the right thing to do.

In your shoes, I’d serve procedural notice on the leasing co as a starting point, so that they know you’re serious. Otherwise there is no motivation for them to fix anything

I would also say that as they are managing a he tenancy, they will be liable for any damage or action served by the neighbours in the meantime and that you will be referring all the neighbours back to them until the end of the contract.

You can then do this telling the neighbours what you’re doing, that you’ve done all you’re able to legally and it’s totally on the leasing co as to the continuing tenancy of the family.

you can always take out a new agreement on different terms If the leasing co resolves this matter in the meantime

Living underneath 3 kids will be noisy and certain times. It's not necessarily antisocial.

The neighbours have recourse if it's truly not just normal living irritating them. It's not true to say they only have 1 option. I think you need to lend the benefit of the doubt to your tenants and let the people living there decide if its worth taking further action.

You need to check your obligations under the lease to fellow occupiers and management company. It may be that you need to enforce your tenant ie the charity to not allow others to be disturbed. It is then up to them to deal with their occupier.

Ancrene OP is the landlord. That she has a management company, third party dealing, directly with the tenant does not change that in law, anywhere in the UK.

I’d have reminded the leasing co that the ‘PR disaster’ would be 100% on their name and not yours.

I’d serve notice on that basis alone to start with actually.

Surely there's a step before kicking out someone with small kids in winter who is there on the bones of their arse!!!

Have the agents tell her she has a month to rectify the issue and minimise impact on the neighbours and perhaps post information from the local council about what is considered normal noises of living to the tenant and complainers.

Sounds like there could be three sides to this story and making a desperate family homeless on just one of them is equally a dick move as ignoring it!!!

Going against the grain here this could be normal flat living and it could be normal noise.
If the building isn’t used to kids people around you might find kids noisy and it’s just normal noise.
Could your neighbour have been spoilt due to you not being there and thus has got used to Little or no noise?

Have you checked they are not damaging your flat too? I think morally you can’t just do nothing knowing how distressed people living around them are.

One set of complaints I wouldn't be too stressed about.
But complaints from a number of apartments suggest a real issue.
It doesn't seem the family are a good fit for the building.

I've never found young professionals particularly fussy about their neighbors so it must be pretty bad.

@Username7521 they would definitely have been spoilt when we lived there as we were rarely there and when we were it was just to sleep, no parties, no visitors, no Tv on even. Not sure if it’s one extreme to another or if current situation is within the norms of acceptable noise levels

As others have said just because the neighbours have complained it doesn’t mean the family are making excessive noise. They neighbours may be funny gits who have started a hate campaign.

If I was in your shoes I’d drop by the building and ask to go in the neighbours flats so you can access for yourself whether there is an issue.

Long term after they way they have handled the situation, and esp how they have spoken to you, I’d be making plans to use another company to lease the flat - helping the family out as much as possible if they have been unfairly targeted by your neighbours

YABVU to make the people's lives bellow your tenets miserable only truly callous landlords ignore such matters.

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

Terminate the lease. Its not fair on the other tenants, she's been warned about the noise and doesn't care so give her notice. She should have thought about where she would live before and controlled her kids.

This

I agree with others that you do need to do something.

Your agreement is with the leasing company. The tenant has an agreement with them too. You need to tell the leasing company that if they do not evict her, that you will be terminating your contract with them. I'd also try to get in writing what they said about the publicity about evicting a single parent around Christmas. That is a despicable thing to have said to you.
They were completely in the wrong here letting the apartment out to an unsuitable resident even when they knew that it is 'not a typical family building' and is usually rented/owned by professional couples/singles.
That's my take on the situation.

My sister is in the same position as your neighbours, but hers are young adults. Think all night music, slamming doors and vomit in the hallways and out of windows. Yes, really.

Do what you can to make the other tenants lives better op - having the tennant move might make her learn that leaving kids to kids run riot is not acceptable.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus she is the landlord to the Company, not to this family. The problem, if it exists, is between the company and the family, not between her and the family. The most she can do is terminate the company - and apparently that’s 4 months away, when the lease is up, unless she can give notice for some other reason, like the company is behaving improperly - which sounds unlikely and difficult to establish. She should step back, do nothing, and not feel at all guilty! In 4 months she can decide whether she wants to renew the lease with this company.

Is there any way you could say she has 4 weeks (for example) to curb the noise, after which if there is no improvement, she will be evicted?
I would probably serve her notice now, given that she has said outright that the noise situation isn't going to change, it must be awful for the neighbours, especially if they're trying to work from home.

“It’s abundantly clear that the woman cannot or will not control the kids (no judgement - just stating fact that it will not be resolved from that side).“

Is that clear?
How many people have actually complained to you, and how many of them actually would be impacted - only the 2 below?
Have you asked them about the other families housed there by the same company?

Are you sure this isn’t a group of child-free professionals being dismayed at their quiet block becoming a block with multiple families, and you’re part of a campaign against that, rather than this family being especially problematic?

It’s quite possible they are a bit of a nightmare… it’s equally possible that the other tenants are making disproportionate complaints.