To do nothing about tenant?

[MyBurdenisHeavy]

Hi folks, happy new year.

We have a flat in London that was used for work 2/3 nights a week. Been WFH since pandemic and started to rent it out a year ago. It’s not typically a “family” building. Mainly young professionals. Anyway we were approached by a company who offered to lease it from us and they would manage the letting. Turns out they have a contract with a homeless charity or such and had a few units in our building housing homeless families during the pandemic. No issues there - all good. Fast forward a year and we’re being contacted by other tenants/owners who managed to get our number, pleading with us to do something about the people in our flat (a mother and 3 boys I understand - 2.5, 4 and 6). Apparently they are making the lives of the people below them (at least 2 flats based on the way they are laid out) an utter misery - stomping, running, jumping from morning to night I’m told. I contacted the company we leased it to and they said that they had received some complaints a few months ago and called out to talk to the family a few times. The complaints kept coming and ultimately they said the woman explained that the children were just playing and being kids so she didn’t know what they wanted her to do. They told me the kids were probably a bit boisterous alright but ultimately that’s part of apartment living and the neighbours just have to accept there’s a family living there and get on with it. The complaints kept coming apparently but they had closed the matter and are no longer responding to them - they told me there is a legal route the other residents could take if they felt strongly about it, but it rarely happens so just sit tight and don’t worry about it.
I’m now up the walls with anxiety and guilt and don’t know what the right thing to do is.
It’s abundantly clear that the woman cannot or will not control the kids (no judgement - just stating fact that it will not be resolved from that side). So the options are to carry on and leave things as they are - thereby upsetting the neighbours and ruining their home life (their words), or terminate the lease (I can do this in 4 months) and cause distress to the woman and her kids.
AIBU to do nothing, stay out of it and leave the family stay there?

Unless I have misunderstood, the OP has leased her apartment to a company. This is not a situation where they are managing it for her. The company is renting it from her and subletting. Therefore she is NOT the landlord to this family. She is the landlord to the company.

Agree that it is the agency's responsibility, and if a tenant cannot control themselves or their kids and end up with so many complaints then tough, they should behave responsibly or get out. It's unfair on other residents, particularly if it's a 'young professionals' type of place as you said. You can surely choose to let with another agency and specify professional types only as tenants.

What type of flooring did you have down, and has it been changed?

Sounds like the flat isn't suitable for the current tenants and they should be rehoused.

Your poor neighbours. Of course you should terminate the lease, as quickly as possible.

* It’s abundantly clear that the woman cannot or will not control the kids (no judgement - just stating fact that it will not be resolved from that side).*

He lax parenting is ruining people’s enjoyment of their homes.
I judge

I live in a flat, have neighbours upstairs and can hear everything they and their kids do and I think they have carpets. It's part and parcel of living in a flat. The only thing you can really do is put soundproofing underlay to reduce noise. From what you've said it's normal 'everyday' noise. In London especially it's hard to get housing through the council etc even when homeless. There are plenty of routes the neighbours can take if they really are maing too much noise, including contacting their council who will send out tech to monitor how much noise is being made (at my old place I did have antisocial neighbours who made far too much noise and got kicked out as a result). I'd also do what other PP's have suggested and make it the company's problem and tighten up your contract with them and insist they pay for soundproof underlay to be put in.

Seems like you are paying someone to manage things for you and they are putting it all on you. They don't want the hassle so they are guilt tripping you about evicting a woman and her children.

Don't be a fool and let them get away with it. As for the woman, she's brought this on herself. Kids need to play but they also need to learn how to behave in a way as to not piss off other people.

Please don't. I work with letting agents, management companies etc. I know what I am talking about.

In the absence of a total indemnity clause, which may not be legal anyway, OP is the landlord who allows her property to be sublet. Yes, the company will have some responsibility, but the buck stops with the OP.

Which is why my first advice was to check her contract!

How large is your flat Op?

Based on the info in this thread. This is NOT a standard tenancy. It sounds vey much like the woman and her family have been placed in the flat as part of a homeless application and the flat will be what's known as temporary accommodation (TA) She will have been granted a licence to occupy.
Some TA is great and appropriate others not so social size criteria isn't always applied, I've known families of 4 in a 1 bed, or a family of 6 in a 2 bed. Location of accom is also irrelvant alot of the time too. It is simply a queation of where do we have accommodation?
I can almost guarantee what has happened is the council will have phoned the agency asked have you got anything suitable for an adult and 3 children. Agency said yes, Council gives them the details and the woman then told to report to agency. Very little consideration will have been given to anything else.

If the accommodation isn't suitable then she can be moved by the council. You could contact the housing options team at the local council explain who you are, the address of the flat and the complaints. That will get some traction.

We had similar issues with a semi detached house that we rented out, we gave them notice to leave. Have you actually seen inside your property since you rented it out? If not I’d suggest an inspection. Put it this way, it cost us £8k to repair the damage with ‘boisterous’ children living in the house which included replastering the hallway, replacing doors and door frames and all carpets. They’d also got a dog without asking and the garden was ruined, they’d also put up a trampoline and left a pool up over winter which ruined the lawn. We don’t let the property to anyone with children now, once bitten and all that. I feel for the neighbours, they have a right to live in peace and you as a landlord have a duty of responsibility to ensure your tenants don’t disrupt anyone around them as far as I’m concerned.

Give them notice and tell your agency that you want better vetting of future tenants - no young families.

There must be a lease which states what behaviour in unacceptable, you need to check what that says. Long-term you need to stay on good terms with your neighbours and you need to go back to your company tenants and tell them to sort it.

A household with 4 little boys is not going to be a quiet one, this is clearly not a suitable home for that family.

They will not be turning a family out in the middle of winter they have 4 months to sort out a new place for them to go. They need to make sure that they put smaller, quieter tenants in there in future.

@ginghamstarfish this company is not her agent. It is not an agency agreement. She has let the flat to the company. The company holds the lease. The company has sublet to the family. It is an altogether different situation from an agency agreement, unless I have misunderstood the OP.

It may be that if they mainly young proffessionals, they're just not used to family noise, excessive or not. I would be tempted to go and hang out there for an hour, if you could do unobtrusively (possibly not) to get a feel for how loud it is. FWIW we had nightmare neighbours, very loud garage type music at all hours. Landlord, who we had helped/assisted all through the lengthy renovations wasn't interested and just referred us back to the letting agency.

@Cocomarine we’ve had 3 people contact us - 2 flats directly below and another one below but not directly iykwim.
I was saying it’s clear that the woman won’t change the kids behaviour as there have been apparently dozens of approaches directly to her and via the company and nothing improved so that appears to be a non runner.
I’m not aware of issues with any of the other families. Not sure if that means there are none or not

The way one of the neighbours described it was it’s like a bunch of kids playing a game of soccer from 8am to 11pm

If the lease runs out in 4 months, I would just tell them you're not going to be renewing the lease and give them the usual notice. Don't evict them, just don't extend.

Get rid of the company as well. They sound equally shit.

It's impossible to know if it's "normal" noise without being there yourself, but it does sound like it's an issue if there are three, separate complaints.

"Fast forward a year and we’re being contacted by other tenants/owners who managed to get our number, "

This is totally out-of-order. Has the managing gent given them this?

"The complaints kept coming apparently but they had closed the matter and are no longer responding to them - they told me there is a legal route the other residents could take if they felt strongly about it, but it rarely happens so just sit tight and don’t worry about it."

If this is the advice you have been given and you have it in writing^ then do nothing.

What one person thinks is noisy is not the same as another.

You have asked the managing agent to manage for you and that's what they are doing.

You could always get a solicitor's advice (most give a free half hour appt) if it is really bugging you.

The behaviour of the tenants isn't normal noise. Boisterous kids need to be taken out to run off steam, not just be allowed to disturb other neighbours. I'd terminate the lease and hopefully a ground floor flat or house will be found for them and she can recognise she has to control her children.

I work for a charity that does exactly what the company that has leased it off you do. If we had these sorts of complaints we would look at moving the tenant to a more suitable property for their needs. They may not have suitable properties and that is why they're stalling but there should be a move on plan for this lady as this is not long term sustainable. It's in our best interests to keep neighbours happy for future tenants we would want to place there. The company should be doing everything in their power to keep the neighbours and yourself happy. I would advise them that you will play them at their own game and inform other agents not to work with them because they've not dealt with your problems. The agent is also responsible here as they should of discussed this with your prior to renting it to them. We've never been able to obtain a property without it being discussed with the owner first and giving them all the relevant information including what we would do if issues arise like you're currently having.

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants that’s a worry that we are alienating our neighbours and causing bitterness. But I was trying to keep an open mind about family noise and what’s reasonable

For your own peace of mind to stop the complaints, I would ask the lease company to give the tenants notice to quit, and terminate the agreement with the leasing company as they are not concerned about your interests , then find a Letting Agent and tell them that you only want it let to professional couples/individuals from now on. (Yes they could still be noisy but it can't be blamed on kids then).

@AncreneWisse

You are not the LL, the company is, so this is not (directly) your problem. The company was perfectly right to be wary of evicting a mother and 3 young children just before Christmas. And the mother is probably right saying the kids are just being kids. As the company said, there is a legal route the downstairs tenants can pursue if they really believe the behaviour is unreasonable. Let them go for that and it will be investigated legally to determine. It will very probably turn out that nothing really unreasonable is going on, and they just don’t like living below children. Well too bad. They should buy a house if they don’t want upstairs neighbours.

There should absolutely not be a situation in which families are excluded from apartment living because downstairs neighbours don’t like it.

In any case, you should stay out of it. As above, you are not the LL. Your contract is with the company, not the family.

100% agree with this. If the neighbours feel that strongly they have options to take it further.

I feel that possibly it's not as bad as they are making out . All day and all night? I know it's school holidays at the moment but would they normally be at school? And would they be in bed at a reasonable time.

There are 3 children there so of course there's going to be noise. Children playing would be classed as normal family noise . These people should not live in apartments if they can't tolerate noise.

The apartment is being used by a homless charity to help a woman and her children which probably means they are homless and are going through a difficult time. And now a few snobs want to get her kicked out.

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants

It may be that if they mainly young proffessionals, they're just not used to family noise, excessive or not. I would be tempted to go and hang out there for an hour, if you could do unobtrusively (possibly not) to get a feel for how loud it is. FWIW we had nightmare neighbours, very loud garage type music at all hours. Landlord, who we had helped/assisted all through the lengthy renovations wasn't interested and just referred us back to the letting agency.

Agree there.

If you can, hang around the flat to see if it’s that noisy.
But the company’s reaction with the guilt tripping of it being a PR nightmare to evict a single mother with young Dcs doesn’t sit well with me tbh.