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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to not like drag Queens?

999 replies

Draggedalong1 · 01/01/2022 12:04

And why don’t I? To me there is something intimidating and scary in the make up, and harsh glamour, parodied until it’s ugly and I think, aggressive. I remember going to drag shows long again in the 90s and they seemed to be a bit of fun and almost innocent compared to whatever it is about ru Paul et al. Nothing wrong with a bit of dame Edna from what I remember as a kid. What’s the reasoning behind this new style I wonder, and aibu?

OP posts:
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5
TooBigForMyBoots · 03/01/2022 17:25

I have never heard any drag artist use "fishy". It's mentioned all the time on here but when I questioned it I was told that it was referenced on a Jimmy Carr programme a few years ago.HmmConfused

Where does it come from?

bordermidgebite · 03/01/2022 17:31

Don't know where it originates ... ancient term

You can find it in the ru Paul dictionary for starters

Waitwhat23 · 03/01/2022 17:31

@TooBigForMyBoots

I have never heard any drag artist use "fishy". It's mentioned all the time on here but when I questioned it I was told that it was referenced on a Jimmy Carr programme a few years ago.HmmConfused

Where does it come from?

You asked for a example of when the words fishy were used in drag and I gave an example of when it had been used on mainstream TV. Not sure what about that is confusing.

You were also told that the term is included in Ru Paul's Drag Dictionary by another poster. I would have assumed you might have googled it but if not, here it is for information - rupaulsdragrace.fandom.com/wiki/RuPaul%27s_Drag_Race_Dictionary

A very quick Google would give you numerous examples of drag Queens discussing the term and of a previous contestant on DPDR making a point about the term.

But if you've not come across it, it must not exist.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/01/2022 17:38

So it's not that common. That's probably why I've never come across it.

FirewomanSam · 03/01/2022 17:39

@TooBigForMyBoots it used to be used a LOT on the earlier seasons of RPDR. Off the top of my head, I can specifically recall Fifi O’Hara and Jujubee using it, but there will be many many other examples on that show for sure. It’s usually used as a positive description which means the drag queen is looking particularly feminine or makes a particularly convincing and attractive woman. Queens used to come out on the runway and say things like ‘I’m serving fish’ to mean that they think they look really feminine.

Like I said upthread, I’m a big drag (and Drag Race) fan but I am not sorry this particular term seems to have disappeared from Drag Race in more recent seasons.

This thread wants everything to be all or nothing but I think there will be plenty of drag fans like me who don’t like certain misogynistic elements of drag and are glad they’re becoming less and less common, at least on RPDR. But many people here seem to want to point at those specifically misogynistic phrases/aspects of drag and then infer that ALL drag is therefore terrible.

FrancescaContini · 03/01/2022 17:40

@TooBigForMyBoots

So it's not that common. That's probably why I've never come across it.
Confused Nevertheless, the poster above you has very helpfully provided ample evidence that it’s a “thing”.
AppleJane · 03/01/2022 17:45

The fish thing can't be that uncommon. Even I've heard of it and I don't tune in to those shows.

I'm sure I saw an advert where they don't even have to say 'fishy' they just fan their nether regions as an indication.

AlfonsoTheGoat · 03/01/2022 17:48

Gay men / drag queens saying that women's vaginas is very common, alas.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/01/2022 17:52

It's a word in drag used to describe a drag queen. I am not offended at all. I thought it was being used by drag artists to denigrate women, not a complimentary term for eachother.Shock

middleager · 03/01/2022 17:53

The Big Fat Quiz of the year contained a question about 'fishies' - hardly an underground programme.

hangonamo · 03/01/2022 17:53

Drag is inherently misogynistic. It's making fun of women and reinforcing harmful sex stereotypes.

This is the point of disagreement on the thread I think. Some people find drag to be inherently misogynistic, others don't.

I don't get even a hint of dislike of women from drag artists. I don't feel that it's making fun of me. As I said upthread, my experience of drag is limited to RPDR these days and it seems to me to be hardly about women at all. Some have male names, some play with gender stereotypes by keeping their beards or hairy chests. Some play with identity by exploring the line between humans and machines or monsters. Some like experimental fashion and make up. Their looks are expected to be creative and innovative and not simply about who can look the most like a woman. That was made even clearer in the last uk series which included a woman drag queen. (This is why a PP's suggestion that they should dress in jeans and a hoody to be more like her is spectacularly missing the point.) I can't speak for the queens obviously but the impression I get is of (mostly) men who often suffered enormous harm growing up for not being masculine enough, who often struggled with their sexuality as youngsters, taking refuge in their femininity and celebrating it. Many on that show speak of horrific bullying and aggression towards them from other men, and of powerful female role models in their lives. They take the piss out of each other and themselves, but not me, I don't think. The overall impression I get is of inclusivity, not misogyny.

Franca123 · 03/01/2022 17:55

On this BBC programme they were using the term 'fishy' to refer to being like a woman? That's actually appalling. I can remember disgusting boys at school saying that. But the BBC?

middleager · 03/01/2022 17:59

@hangonamo

Drag is inherently misogynistic. It's making fun of women and reinforcing harmful sex stereotypes.

This is the point of disagreement on the thread I think. Some people find drag to be inherently misogynistic, others don't.

I don't get even a hint of dislike of women from drag artists. I don't feel that it's making fun of me. As I said upthread, my experience of drag is limited to RPDR these days and it seems to me to be hardly about women at all. Some have male names, some play with gender stereotypes by keeping their beards or hairy chests. Some play with identity by exploring the line between humans and machines or monsters. Some like experimental fashion and make up. Their looks are expected to be creative and innovative and not simply about who can look the most like a woman. That was made even clearer in the last uk series which included a woman drag queen. (This is why a PP's suggestion that they should dress in jeans and a hoody to be more like her is spectacularly missing the point.) I can't speak for the queens obviously but the impression I get is of (mostly) men who often suffered enormous harm growing up for not being masculine enough, who often struggled with their sexuality as youngsters, taking refuge in their femininity and celebrating it. Many on that show speak of horrific bullying and aggression towards them from other men, and of powerful female role models in their lives. They take the piss out of each other and themselves, but not me, I don't think. The overall impression I get is of inclusivity, not misogyny.

I didn't spectacularly miss the point. What is femininity as you describe it then? Why is it never jeans? Why is it 'creative'?
AppleJane · 03/01/2022 17:59

I can remember disgusting boys at school saying that.

Exactly. Usually aimed at the girls that wouldn't go out with them.

Franca123 · 03/01/2022 18:02

Those photos and those phrases mentioned dont suggest that these particular men respect women very much. They can fuck off quite frankly. And presumably, as it's the BBC, this is the most respectable end of drag. Really pisses me off. Can't stand men treating women like that.

hangonamo · 03/01/2022 18:04

I didn't spectacularly miss the point.
What is femininity as you describe it then? Why is it never jeans? Why is it 'creative'?

The point is that they are not pretending to be women or trying to be women, so would not be interested in copying how you, a real woman, dress.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/01/2022 18:10

I dont watch BFQOTY, but I know it is a late night, comedy, programme on C4, these shows do tend to be risque. And the article posted above says that the drag artists were reading cue cards, written by someone else.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/01/2022 18:12

Calm down @Franca123, it C4 not the BBC.😆

Franca123 · 03/01/2022 18:24

@TooBigForMyBoots

Calm down *@Franca123*, it C4 not the BBC.😆
Calm down dear? Another classic male put down for women.
VestofAbsurdity · 03/01/2022 18:29

@TooBigForMyBoots

Calm down *@Franca123*, it C4 not the BBC.😆
The BBC screens Ru Paul's Drag Race and as has been pointed out to you several times the term fishy is used on there it is even in Ru Paul's Drag Race Dictionary. Do try to keep up, dear.
VestofAbsurdity · 03/01/2022 18:31

@TooBigForMyBoots

It's a word in drag used to describe a drag queen. I am not offended at all. I thought it was being used by drag artists to denigrate women, not a complimentary term for eachother.Shock
Of course it is a term used to denigrate women it is saying our vaginas smell of fish ffs.
Franca123 · 03/01/2022 18:33

I remember being told to calm down after I got groped at a cash point one afternoon.

Franca123 · 03/01/2022 18:36

You never get told to 'calm down' unless you're challenging male behaviour.