Page 27 | Aibu to not like drag Queens?

Draggedalong1 · 2022-01-01T12:04:22+00:00

And why don’t I? To me there is something intimidating and scary in the make up, and harsh glamour, parodied until it’s ugly and I think, aggressive. I remember going to drag shows long again in the 90s and they seemed to be a bit of fun and almost innocent compared to whatever it is about ru Paul et al. Nothing wrong with a bit of dame Edna from what I remember as a kid. What’s the reasoning behind this new style I wonder, and aibu?

Waitwhat23 · 02/01/2022 22:29

And going back to an earlier conversation about women experiencing poorer health care than men, black women face sex and race discrimination in health care. There is a shocking statistic that black women are 4x more likely to die in pregnancy or childbirth than white women and it seems to only be very recently that anyone in the medical establishment or political establishment have taken any steps to investigate why black women are much more likely to receive poor health care.

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/01/2022 22:38

In my many years of going to stuff and watching 3 seasons of RPDR, I have never heard a drag act mention "fishy"..

Where does that come from? Is it commonplace in drag acts in your area?

hangonamo · 02/01/2022 22:46

I think the Ru Paul drag shows only appeal to a small minority, but the BBC is so busy being woke that it does not seem bothered about alienating the silent majority.

The first UK series got 12 million views. It's not a small minority. Lots of people evidently enjoy it and it's unlikely that all of those are men.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/01/2022 23:02

I've got a book open here concerning a case in 1976.

A man wished to punish and humiliate his wife so he forced her to have sex with first him and then his friend from the pub while he watched.

The drinking buddy successfully appealed his conviction for rape, and all the husband could be prosecuted for was enabling the drinking pal's rape of her.

Unmerited · 02/01/2022 23:04

@slashlover

You're going to get loads of people on here agreeing with you and calling it womanface. MN hates them.

I did not know that there’s a hive mind, how interesting. I just thought it was multiple women having the same logical thought.

bordermidgebite · 02/01/2022 23:08

The black and white minstrel show was pretty popular too

Popular does not equal right

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/01/2022 23:08

@Notimeforaname

What is the nature of the joke?

What jokes are you talking about?

The ones you keep saying you enjoy?

Waitwhat23 · 02/01/2022 23:11

@TooBigForMyBoots

In my many years of going to stuff and watching 3 seasons of RPDR, I have never heard a drag act mention "fishy".

.

Where does that come from? Is it commonplace in drag acts in your area?

Seemingly commonplace enough to be explained as terminology used in drag in the episode of The Big Fat Quiz of the Year that I watched a couple of years ago, which was what made me really think about how drag ridicules women's bodies.

bordermidgebite · 02/01/2022 23:13

Fishy

In the ru Paul dictionary

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/01/2022 23:17

[quote Waitwhat23]@PurgatoryOfPotholes just made the mistake of reading about the 1954 case. The sentence which really stood out to me was 'Before arraignment counsel for the defence moved to quash the indictment on the ground that the depositions disclosed that the woman concerned was the prisoner's wife and that in law a man could not commit rape against his wife; and, as regards the second count, on the grounds that it was no assault for a man to have intercourse with his wife, even if she were unwilling and resisted, and that the depositions disclosed no actual bodily harm'

When you realise this was 1954, it just boggles the mind.[/quote]
IIRC, that will be Miller? Absolutely abominable case, which ended up turning on whether psychological distress after being repeatedly raped ( not the terminology they used at the time) constituted harm to the victim.

Abitofalark · 02/01/2022 23:19

@Notimeforaname

The racism point is a parallel - drag isn't racist....its misogynist. In drag, women are the butt of the jokes. It's men taking the piss out of women, using offensive names, saying offensive things about women's genitals. If you don't think saying offensive things about female genitals is misogyny then that's fine, but it shows that you don't know what misogyny is and therefore makes your argument rather redundant

I'm just going to say it one more time...I dont see misogyny in drag. You can dress that up however you want to but I just don't. I enjoy drag.

I doesn't offend me in the slightest.

I do understand other people don't like it as we all have likes and dislikes and form our own opinions.

I

I have not been offended by any of the jokes made at the drag shows I've been to. And I've never been to a drag show where they just joked about women.

Usually current affairs and politics.

I am not a racist and I dont hate women but like drag.

If you don't mind, may I ask where are these drag shows that you've been to?

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/01/2022 23:23

Seemingly commonplace enough to be explained as terminology used in drag in the episode of The Big Fat Quiz of the Year that I watched a couple of years ago, which was what made me really think about how drag ridicules women's bodies.

I don't watch Big Fat Quiz of the Year. I don't really like Jimmy Carr.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/01/2022 23:34

I'm afraid women of my generation rarely understand exactly how shit life used to be for women, and how much we owe to thousands of foremothers.

It was all interconnected. Take the poor woman in the 1954 case. Refreshing my mind and checking the brief case summaries available on line, she had left him in 1952. But not divorced him on paper, because divorce was still rare at that point and very difficult to obtain. No such thing as a no-fault divorce back then.

But that meant that sexually, this man that she'd left had the right to have sex with her, no matter what she had to say about it. The outcome of that court case (which must have taken a huge toll on her) was that he didn't have the right to cause her bodily injury when he exerted his conjugal rights.

And that was a win for women's rights.

And people on this thread say women haven't been oppressed.

PurpleCarpets · 02/01/2022 23:59

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I'm afraid women of my generation rarely understand exactly how shit life used to be for women, and how much we owe to thousands of foremothers.

It was all interconnected. Take the poor woman in the 1954 case. Refreshing my mind and checking the brief case summaries available on line, she had left him in 1952. But not divorced him on paper, because divorce was still rare at that point and very difficult to obtain. No such thing as a no-fault divorce back then.

But that meant that sexually, this man that she'd left had the right to have sex with her, no matter what she had to say about it. The outcome of that court case (which must have taken a huge toll on her) was that he didn't have the right to cause her bodily injury when he exerted his conjugal rights.

And that was a win for women's rights.

And people on this thread say women haven't been oppressed.

It's shocking, and of course within the memories of women still alive today. The notion that in English law by the "contract" of marriage the woman was essentially transferred as an asset from her father to her husband persisted until nearly the end of the 20th century.

334bu · 03/01/2022 00:01

Marital rape in the UK only became illegal in 1992, so within your lifetime if you are over 30.

hangonamo · 03/01/2022 00:06

@bordermidgebite

The black and white minstrel show was pretty popular too

Popular does not equal right

No, but it does equal popular, contrary to the PP's opinion that only a small minority enjoyed it.

334bu · 03/01/2022 00:12

In Scotland in 2022 there are 21,000 women who are still not receiving the same pay as men for work of equal value .
Just because we are more than half the population doesn't mean that we are not a marginalised group and doesn't make it right that another group should punch down and subject us to ridicule.

bluejelly · 03/01/2022 00:19

I am a feminist who hates misogyny and I really don't feel offended by drag queens. I am furious about the daily discrimination and abuse women face at work, as mothers and in intimate relationships. I've never heard of any of that abuse being committed or orchestrated by drag queens. Drag may not be to your taste but that's a different matter.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/01/2022 00:21

It's less than 100 years since an obvious imbalance in the (very limited) divorce legislation was levelled. 1923 is not exactly within living memory at this point, but my grandfather was already born at that time.

As it did in other areas of social policy, WWI led to reforms of divorce law that put men and women on a more equal footing. The Matrimonial Causes Act 1923, introduced as a Private Member's Bill, enabled either partner to petition for divorce on the basis of their spouse's adultery (previously, only the man had been able to do this). A further Act in 1937 offered additional grounds for divorce: cruelty, desertion and incurable insanity. Though it was becoming more widespread, divorce remained uncommon enough to be a potential source of shame throughout the first half of the 20th century. As late as 1955, the Tory cabinet minister Lord Salisbury threatened to resign if a bill were passed to allow Princess Margaret to marry Peter Townshend, the innocent party in a divorce case.

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/olympic-britain/housing-and-home-life/split-pairs/

Notimeforaname · 03/01/2022 01:07

If you don't mind, may I ask where are these drag shows that you've been to?

Ireland

Notimeforaname · 03/01/2022 01:11

I am a feminist who hates misogyny and I really don't feel offended by drag queens. I am furious about the daily discrimination and abuse women face at work, as mothers and in intimate relationships. I've never heard of any of that abuse being committed or orchestrated by drag queens. Drag may not be to your taste but that's a different matter

Yes this is how I feel.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/01/2022 01:14

I'm afraid women of my generation rarely understand exactly how shit life used to be for women, and how much we owe to thousands of foremothers.

Perhaps I am of an older generation of you. I have seen how shit it was for women like my mother and grandmother. They taught me well. I remember the first WA refuge opening in my city and how much hope it gave me. I was a proper adult when raping your wife was made illegal.

I am a feminist. I am not offended by drag. Or Jimmy Carr. I do not feel insulted because men perform drag or in women's clothes. Some of my favourite comedy moments involve men playing women.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/01/2022 01:39

TooBigForMyBoots

Perhaps I am of an older generation of you.

Indeed you are! I'm a millennial. Like I said, my generation doesn't know.

Seemslikeagoodidea · 03/01/2022 01:52

@hangonamo

I think the Ru Paul drag shows only appeal to a small minority, but the BBC is so busy being woke that it does not seem bothered about alienating the silent majority.

The first UK series got 12 million views. It's not a small minority. Lots of people evidently enjoy it and it's unlikely that all of those are men.

Blimey, 12 million viewers!?!

Maybe not such a minority audience then! I stand corrected (and struck dumb).

PurpleCarpets · 03/01/2022 02:02

Lots of people evidently enjoy it and it's unlikely that all of those are men.

I would guess that men, certainly straight men, are far less interested in it then women.