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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to not like drag Queens?

999 replies

Draggedalong1 · 01/01/2022 12:04

And why don’t I? To me there is something intimidating and scary in the make up, and harsh glamour, parodied until it’s ugly and I think, aggressive. I remember going to drag shows long again in the 90s and they seemed to be a bit of fun and almost innocent compared to whatever it is about ru Paul et al. Nothing wrong with a bit of dame Edna from what I remember as a kid. What’s the reasoning behind this new style I wonder, and aibu?

OP posts:
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5
OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 14:52

Yes I am well aware of the little rights women had especially working class women

But the history is different that is why I think it’s ridiculous to compare

ClaudiaJ1 · 02/01/2022 14:56

Whether the history is different it matters a jot. Both demean their subject. Both promote harmful bigoted stereotypes.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 02/01/2022 14:57

@OhWhyNot

Of course you do Worried

That one girl impacted by drag acts would have to be known by someone on MN

What do you think alerted me to this nonsense in the beginning? Mumsnet has an LGBT children's area by the way, so it's fairly common enough to have its own section.
OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 15:08

To you they do Claudia

Many view drag as a send up nothing offence the more traditional drag like Dame Edna a mixture of an exaggerated piss take on society, that bossy aunt, the matriarch of the family, the Hyacinth Bucket type character

The modern day drag on tv at present is often far more sexualised and ones I have seen some seem very fetish like I don’t think anyone is arguing that this type of drag is for family entertainment

Blackface was to cruelly mock the suffering black people were enduring not in anyway to see humour in dynamics

I’m not getting into the trans debate that some drag are also trans to me is irrelevant (and now some drag queens are women)

Notimeforaname · 02/01/2022 15:12

The modern day drag on tv at present is often far more sexualised

A lot of modern day tv and media is over sexualised now.

YouSetTheTone · 02/01/2022 15:13

Something that a PP said really stuck with me - I’m paraphrasing but it resonated with me so I’m adding in my own feelings- that she felt uncomfortable watching pantomime dames with her brother at a young age, because she’d considered herself equal to her brother but suddenly they were both being forced to laugh at women. Her sex. Immediately putting her below her brother.

I wonder how many women on this thread who say they enjoy drag are saying this because they’ve been conditioned by society to find it funny? Women have been brought up to feel inferior to men, so it’s not exactly difficult for women to go along with the jokes, especially if it’s done with wit, intelligence and sharpness. (Not all drag is overtly crass and crude). But regardless of the skill of the drag artist, it’s still fundamentally the case that women are being made the butt of jokes by men pretending to be women.

This affirms women in the position of being the oppressed sex. Girls growing up alongside their brothers and male peers feel less superior. And often they grow up finding the drag humour funny because they’re used to women as a sex class being punched down at.

doadeer · 02/01/2022 15:15

I think drag Queens would justify that as effeminate gay men they are an oppressed, marginalised group therefore it's not the same as white people mocking black people who they had significant power over.

That as gay men they are discrimated against more than women.

That's what I'd guess?

EishetChayil · 02/01/2022 15:18

Drag queens aren't all gay men.

ClaudiaJ1 · 02/01/2022 15:19

@YouSetTheTone

Something that a PP said really stuck with me - I’m paraphrasing but it resonated with me so I’m adding in my own feelings- that she felt uncomfortable watching pantomime dames with her brother at a young age, because she’d considered herself equal to her brother but suddenly they were both being forced to laugh at women. Her sex. Immediately putting her below her brother.

I wonder how many women on this thread who say they enjoy drag are saying this because they’ve been conditioned by society to find it funny? Women have been brought up to feel inferior to men, so it’s not exactly difficult for women to go along with the jokes, especially if it’s done with wit, intelligence and sharpness. (Not all drag is overtly crass and crude). But regardless of the skill of the drag artist, it’s still fundamentally the case that women are being made the butt of jokes by men pretending to be women.

This affirms women in the position of being the oppressed sex. Girls growing up alongside their brothers and male peers feel less superior. And often they grow up finding the drag humour funny because they’re used to women as a sex class being punched down at.

You are right, it is mostly conditioning. Some women don't see it as offensive as they are so used to it, so conditioned to it, so desensitised to it, we can see that on this thread. They are completely unable to see that it is blatant misogyny. Others also have friends in the arena so deliberately block anything out because to see it as misogyny would ultimately make it problematic for their friendships and wish to avoid cognitive dissonance so choose to 'block out' and simply chant by rote that it isn't. It's much easier that way than having to face the reality.
Notimeforaname · 02/01/2022 15:20

Drag queens aren't forcing their way onto tv and into libraries. They are sought out and paid. The demand is huge.

There will always be things we dont like all around us. We can engage or not.

I understand people are offended by it or 'creeped out' there are some perfectly legal things that offend me and creep me out that others enjoy. 🤷‍♀️

As for drag being illegal in the future, who knows! With the way the world is going it may well be!

But for now its very popular and I cant see that stopping any time soon.

ClaudiaJ1 · 02/01/2022 15:21

@doadeer

I think drag Queens would justify that as effeminate gay men they are an oppressed, marginalised group therefore it's not the same as white people mocking black people who they had significant power over.

That as gay men they are discrimated against more than women.

That's what I'd guess?

Possibly, but even as gay men they are still far more powerful than women, and women are discriminated against far more than gay men.
YouSetTheTone · 02/01/2022 15:23

Gay men can still be misogynist.

Women are the oppressed sex. This remains the case worldwide. They are oppressed by men- regardless of their sexuality.

threecupsofteaminimum · 02/01/2022 15:24

YANBU. I fucking loathe drag.

OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 15:26

Women are discriminated against more than gay men. What here in the UK ?

Really how many openly gay men PM’s have we had (or be ready to vote in) or around the world how many openly gay men have been in positions of power

Ah so some of us do not the same level of intelligence to view all drag as deeply offensive. Ok then

bordermidgebite · 02/01/2022 15:27

Openly Gay men are represented in our parliament at the expected rate

Women are not

Notimeforaname · 02/01/2022 15:28

Some women don't see it as offensive as they are so used to it, so conditioned to it, so desensitised to it, we can see that on this thread. They are completely unable to see that it is blatant misogyny

Isn't it mad how some people are SURE their opinion/view is the only correct one and cant fathom that another person with a differing opinion knows their own mind and have formed their own opinion.

It must be that they are 'conditioned' and 'unable to see' 😂

I feel sorry for those who's brain just cant accept/understand that others think differently.

AppleJane · 02/01/2022 15:34

@YouSetTheTone and @ClaudiaJ1 completely agree about conditioning.

As a child I grew up believing women were better at cooking. I didn't stop to wonder if it was because I was expected to help mother in the kitchen while my brother got to tinker with his bicycle in the garden.

powershowerforanhour · 02/01/2022 15:37

"around the world how many openly gay men have been in positions of power"

You don't have to look too far. Leo Varadkar is gay. There has never been a female taoiseach.

DickMabutt73962 · 02/01/2022 15:39

@Notimeforaname

Some women don't see it as offensive as they are so used to it, so conditioned to it, so desensitised to it, we can see that on this thread. They are completely unable to see that it is blatant misogyny

Isn't it mad how some people are SURE their opinion/view is the only correct one and cant fathom that another person with a differing opinion knows their own mind and have formed their own opinion.

It must be that they are 'conditioned' and 'unable to see' 😂

I feel sorry for those who's brain just cant accept/understand that others think differently.

It's the typical MN response to anyone disagreeing with a post on what women should think.

We are only allowed to think the same as them, and if we don't it's because of internalised misogyny/upholding the patriarchy/male sympathising/trolling.

It's gaslighting.

powershowerforanhour · 02/01/2022 15:41

I think the exaggerated costumes, makeup, mannerisms and names are rather mocking- qnd often not in a gentle way.

I can't really think of many instances where this sort of caricaturing of women by gay men happens in reverse. Catherine Tate's "Derek" is one, can't think of any others.

OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 15:41

I know LT was the only leader plus one other (can’t remember her name) I was thinking of

I very much doubt here we would vote in an openly gay PM very few have senior positions on either side of the house

DickMabutt73962 · 02/01/2022 15:42

Something that a PP said really stuck with me - I’m paraphrasing but it resonated with me so I’m adding in my own feelings- that she felt uncomfortable watching pantomime dames with her brother at a young age, because she’d considered herself equal to her brother but suddenly they were both being forced to laugh at women. Her sex. Immediately putting her below her brother.

Yes I'm sure a young child has such deep thoughts.

bordermidgebite · 02/01/2022 15:43

You might not
Many girls are very bright

TrishM80 · 02/01/2022 15:44

Being a gay man was a criminal offence in the UK until the 1960s, being a woman was never a criminal offence!

Notimeforaname · 02/01/2022 15:46

DickMabutt73962

Yes I see it on so many threads here. Basically telling people you are WRONG and your opinion is wrong.
Even here, I have replied to people (who were asking why dont I believe drag is the same as blackface) saying whilst I respected their opinion, I definitely disagreed with them.

It was met with confusion,disbelief and frustration, telling me I am blind and easily led.

So strange. Feels a little bit abusive.