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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to not like drag Queens?

999 replies

Draggedalong1 · 01/01/2022 12:04

And why don’t I? To me there is something intimidating and scary in the make up, and harsh glamour, parodied until it’s ugly and I think, aggressive. I remember going to drag shows long again in the 90s and they seemed to be a bit of fun and almost innocent compared to whatever it is about ru Paul et al. Nothing wrong with a bit of dame Edna from what I remember as a kid. What’s the reasoning behind this new style I wonder, and aibu?

OP posts:
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5
Notimeforaname · 02/01/2022 13:50

Great post ImperialLeather00 !

Lavender24 · 02/01/2022 13:52

I don't find them offensive but I do find them creepy.

Notjustanymum · 02/01/2022 14:01

YANBU for disliking them, YABU for getting upset: just don’t watch them - problem solved!

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 02/01/2022 14:05

That wasn't my conclusion. That was the conclusion based on the stats. I copied and pasted the BBC fact check on the article.
If you think the BBC is wrong then you should correct the article.

A lot of what you said is likely to be out of date btw. Historically lots more men than women identify as trans. But both boom in teenage girls identifying as men and non binary and cross dressing and other under trans umbrella means true numbers obscured.
You seem to think people think trans people commit more crimes than males. What most people actually think is that as they commit a similar pattern to males they shouldn't be treated as women when it comes to safeguarding.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 02/01/2022 14:18

However, the stereotypes shown in drag do not have the same influence over culture as the stereotypes created by white racist people in power.

With all due respect. How did you know this?

For example, I know a young lady who has been brought up in the drag scene. Under sixteen. She's been around people who say girls like x y z harmful stereotype.
She identifies as trans now. Possible bone crumbling hormones and mastectomy in future.vquite harmful.

hangonamo · 02/01/2022 14:19

Sorry, I read this:

So 60/125. Around half. More than the male population and much, much more than the female.
I'd expect it to be in line with men's offending rates.

As you being surprised that it wasn't in line with men. I was pointing out that those numbers (from MoJ not BBC) don't mean what you seemed to think they mean, and they aren't accurate anyway, by the MoJ's own admission.

A lot of what you said is likely to be out of date btw.
Quite possibly - as are those MoJ figures I expect, as the BBC article is from 2018.

OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 14:22

Of course you do Worried

That one girl impacted by drag acts would have to be known by someone on MN

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/01/2022 14:22

Has sickenedbypeople come back?

ClaudiaJ1 · 02/01/2022 14:23

@ImperialLeather00

It is not the same at all.

As a black woman and a fan of drag I find it offensive that some people can even compare the two.

The stereotypes used in drag is not as harmful as blackface since it involves different power dynamics.

Blackface is often performed by white people who are socially and culturally in a position of power, while drag is often performed by a group already marginalised in society.

Drag culture may include harmful stereotypes about women through its focus on unrealistic feminine beauty standards -a cinched waist and large breast - or through acting out stereotypes of women as catty and slutty.
However, the stereotypes shown in drag do not have the same influence over culture as the stereotypes created by white racist people in power.

Are you genuinely saying that the stereotypes of WOMEN shown in drag, do not have the same influence over culture and stereotypes?

Really?

Have a think about that for a moment, and realise that women are still oppressed and it is due to the stereotypes of women accept and promoted in society, whether that be via drag, via chauvinist comments from men at the pub, via religion or via drag.

It doesn't matter where the stereotype comes from and is promoted from, the fact is it exists and it's acceptance is promoted via drag. Drag is the outlet, for the stereotype which promotes acceptance. The very same thing for blackface.

AppleJane · 02/01/2022 14:27

@ImperialLeather00 but if we follow your logic wouldn't we be arguing that rape isn't a crime because murder is much worse? Why can't they both be wrong? Even if not equally so?

OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 14:30

Are we really comparing oppression of white women to black men and women in history

Seriously

We had a white woman ruling over nearly a third of the world while black people were still enslaved

Ffs it isn’t the same

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/01/2022 14:31

Can we just argue about drag without positioning its impact in comparison to blackface?

I don't, FWIW, think they are comparable, but I don't understand why women feel the need to point at blackface to justify their discomfort with drag.

We don't need to.

It is an artistic medium that features men mocking and exaggerating the physical characteristics of women (breasts, hips) and mocking our smell, while perpetuating misogynistic stereotypes.

That is bad in itself.

Waitwhat23 · 02/01/2022 14:34

@PurgatoryOfPotholes completely agree.

ClaudiaJ1 · 02/01/2022 14:34

@OhWhyNot

Are we really comparing oppression of white women to black men and women in history

Seriously

We had a white woman ruling over nearly a third of the world while black people were still enslaved

Ffs it isn’t the same

@OhWhyNot one is comparing the oppression of white women, though, you are the one who brought that into it. Drag is womanface. Not 'white' womanface or 'black' womanface, just.....WOMANface.
ClaudiaJ1 · 02/01/2022 14:35

[quote AppleJane]@ImperialLeather00 but if we follow your logic wouldn't we be arguing that rape isn't a crime because murder is much worse? Why can't they both be wrong? Even if not equally so? [/quote]
Exactly this!!!

Notimeforaname · 02/01/2022 14:35

but if we follow your logic wouldn't we be arguing that rape isn't a crime because murder is much worse? Why can't they both be wrong? Even if not equally so?

Oh this was a big reach.

No she's definitely not arguing that rape is ok.
She's saying drag is ok and not the same as blackface for her.

Drag is very much legal and there to enjoy if thats what you like.

OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 14:37

I was pointing out it isn’t comparable as you well know

PurpleCarpets · 02/01/2022 14:38

@OhWhyNot

Are we really comparing oppression of white women to black men and women in history

Seriously

We had a white woman ruling over nearly a third of the world while black people were still enslaved

Ffs it isn’t the same

We had a white woman ruling over nearly a third of the world while black people were still enslaved

And at a time when gay men and drag performers were being arrested and criminalised by her government.

timeline.com/the-salacious-case-of-the-victorian-cross-dressers-that-made-life-hell-for-gay-men-e8efddb136e1

OhGiveUp · 02/01/2022 14:40

I can't abide them.
It was a sad day when it stopped being illegal for a man to dress as a woman in public.

ClaudiaJ1 · 02/01/2022 14:42

@OhWhyNot

I was pointing out it isn’t comparable as you well know
No, you weren't, you were using a strawman. And they are definitely comparable as has been proven over and over on this thread, as you well know.
OhWhyNot · 02/01/2022 14:45

No only to some who agree

Look at history ….

The history of white women and the history of black women are different in the western world

And often continue to be

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/01/2022 14:47

[quote AppleJane]@ImperialLeather00 but if we follow your logic wouldn't we be arguing that rape isn't a crime because murder is much worse? Why can't they both be wrong? Even if not equally so? [/quote]
That is not following the logic of what @ImperialLeather00 said. Both murder and rape are crimes and rightly so. But murder and rape are not the same, it would be ridiculous to say they were.

334bu · 02/01/2022 14:47

We had a white woman ruling over nearly a third of the world while black people were still enslaved

Indeed and ruling over a country where married women and female children were the property of their husband/father entitled to no money or property of their own

WandaWomblesaurus73 · 02/01/2022 14:48

I've worked in the theatre and costumed many pantomime dames. Years ago I worked on a show with a famous British drag artist who many here have mentioned. I love a good pantomime dame and used to enjoy watching drag race in the early shows. I've always appreciated Rupaul.

However recently things like the "Drag Queen story time" have changed my views on the modern iterations of drag. It absolutely is woman face in the way that certain men are doing it - and I really don't think young children need to be around drag culture in the way it's being forced on them now with a supposed inclusivity agenda whilst reading books promoting gender ideology.

What is the difference between men dressing as parodies of women and white people dressing as parodies of black or brown people? As a "brown" person, I would like some of the white people here to tell me what the difference is?

Sportslady44 · 02/01/2022 14:52

Don't like drag Queens.

Like pantomimes though.