Aibu to not like drag Queens?

[Draggedalong1]

And why don’t I? To me there is something intimidating and scary in the make up, and harsh glamour, parodied until it’s ugly and I think, aggressive. I remember going to drag shows long again in the 90s and they seemed to be a bit of fun and almost innocent compared to whatever it is about ru Paul et al. Nothing wrong with a bit of dame Edna from what I remember as a kid. What’s the reasoning behind this new style I wonder, and aibu?

Meanwhile women are getting spiked by injection in clubs and domestic abuse is on the rise, i very much doubt either is carried out by drag queens is it? Pick your fights.

Oh, are women only supposed to object to one thing at a time then...

reminds me of the desperate attempt to justify in this situation:

www.harrowtimes.co.uk/news/17825428.brent-council-leader-defends-drag-queens-library-appearance/

@334bu

*On every drag thread here the same 3 most shocking drag names are used over and over again.Theres a lot more to drag than those 3 characters.* This is the list I got when I googled " funny" drag names. Anna Bortion. ... Freida Slaves. ... Eggz Benedict. ... Malestia Child. ... Phallic Cunt. ... Meatball. ... Maddelynn Hatter.

Very wholesome.

Don't forget Annie B. Frank.

I don't think being a Jewish man in the 21st century is a get-out clause for taking the name of Anne Frank. Her father has passed away now, but if he was still alive, I doubt he'd give this man his blessing.

@TheFive

I think the whole transgender thing has confused us silly little women and got our knickers in a twist. I mean, if some big hairy bloke wants to put on a dress and call himself Tracey I have to use his preferred pronouns and get naked in the changing room with him or I’m a transphobic TERF…but another guy with padded hips and bum and bra and six inches of foundation on is a theatrical artist subverting stereotypes and being an hilarious scream, and I’m a po-faced prude because I don’t find it funny.

Okey dokey.

This.

I don't understand what the difference is between blackface and womanface. Both offensive and demeaning. Yet it seems to be the "woke" crowd championing drag.

Of course drag is offensive. It is a mockery of women. And it is not only like blackface, it is rooted in blackface. According to this very interesting dissertation, minstrel shows have featured white men mocking both black men and women since the 1820s.

www.proquest.com/docview/304709304/abstract/21B0435A209F4C54PQ/1

I completely understand why people are offended by those drag names. Perfectly acceptable to dislike/hate something. It's a joke to me, so just doesn't offend me.

I definitely dont see drag as mockery at all.

It seems some people here are really trying to convince others that their own opinions are wrong. Nobody's personal opinion Is wrong here.

I think the term woman face is fucking ridiculous. If I dressed in trousers and no make-up am I doing manface?

@Witchcraftandhohohokum

I think the term woman face is fucking ridiculous. If I dressed in trousers and no make-up am I doing manface?

If you painted stubble on, shoved exaggerated balls and a cock down your trousers and called yourself ‘David Smackem’ while portraying a thick as mince tattooed footballer for laughs - then you might be doing ‘man face’.

But men aren’t even the oppressed sex so the dynamic can’t be replicated.

@Witchcraftandhohohokum

I think the term woman face is fucking ridiculous. If I dressed in trousers and no make-up am I doing manface?

The "manface" equivalent would not be wearing trousers and no make up (as many many women do) but something like putting on a bald cap, drawing a beard on your face, adding thick chest hair and stuffing a big sock down your trousers to look like an oversized dick.

@Notimeforaname

I completely understand why people are offended by those drag names. Perfectly acceptable to dislike/hate something. It's a joke to me, so just doesn't offend me.

You find those names a joke? Taking the name of a child who was abused and murdered is a laugh is it?

@Notimeforaname could you explain what you mean in your last two posts saying that it's all a joke to you but also that you don't see it as mockery. What is the difference?

I'm also stunned that you don't think it's offensive to joke about miscarriages, abortions and child molestation. Not sure this is a case of "each to their own". Chilling.

So many great viewpoints here.
I’m still reading, but these two struck me - a lot of others did too, but iv got confused with the cutting and pasting.

People with coulrophobia may be reacting to a clown’s colorful makeup. This disguise hides a clown’s facial features and distorts facial expressions, creating feelings of distrust

In my opinion the current crop of drag queens are doing this. It’s often make up that is very distorting and, I find it aggressive.

The "manface" equivalent would not be wearing trousers and no make up (as many many women do) but something like putting on a bald cap, drawing a beard on your face, adding thick chest hair and stuffing a big sock down your trousers to look like an oversized dick

This. But it would have to be more extreme !
So many interesting views here. I will follow the thread pp posted about the history of drag. I think the ugliness and crudeness of the current trend is aggressive and mysoginist. I think the term,’woman face’ sums it up.
I think parodying anybody in a coarse and ugly way and lip syncing and being bitchy is, well it’s not really very clever is it. Where’s the subtlety and wit? A parody of someone done with clever observation and humour, fine. But this crude power play to call each other fish etc. It’s like thinking you are really clever/ funny because you swear to shock Um, no.

My experience of drag is all from Ru Paul's show these days, but I don't find it offensive or misogynistic or equivalent to blackface. I don't feel mocked or that the piss is being taken out of me. Some of the stories told on that show are pretty horrifying and if drag helps some poor person who is struggling, good for them. Like in any kind of creative art, some are better than others but the best ones are great singers / dancers / comedians / entertainers.

So YANBU to dislike drag but then neither are other people U to like it.

This isnt about blackface yet every time drag is mentioned, almost immediate comparison is made.

Ignorant to talk about blackface being unacceptable when blackfishing/blackface is used by White celebrities wanting to look black. & is forever explained away as being fine.

You're also othering black people. not giving a shit about blackface generally as you dont raise it as a topic - but using it as a "gotcha" for other purposes.

No one on this thread has said that blackface or blackfishing is "fine".

And most people are saying that blackface is offensive, demeaning and wrong.

How is blackface different from womanface?

Drag is positioned as 'liberating'. It is, perhaps, for men. It allows men to 'identify' into, to play with the tropes of femininity. They can escape the shackles of maleness. And we're all supposed to applaud the bravery.

The thing is that women can't so easily escape these shackles. We can't identify out of the subjugation that positions us as lower than, lesser than, more ridiculous and worthy of mockery. That's all based on our female biology, which drag queens conveniently don't ever need to deal with. No periods or childbirth to get in the way of things for them!

I guess if you frame dressing up in an exaggerated over-sexualised manner, with heavy make up etc and revealing clothes, as 'empowerment', it almost looks like liberation. But do all the women and girls dressing like this do it for their own 'empowerment', or do they fear all the usual judgements of women who are deemed not enough, not beautiful or alluring enough? Are women really liberated and empowered by conforming to a relentlessly pushed aesthetic?

It's just more male rights, really. Plus ca change.

We have to spill the tea, but this time, there's no shade. Drag is enjoying one of its most popular periods in herstory

This is the intro to history of drag on bbc bite size. I find I’m really angry with using the term herstory for an article referring to ru Paul and male drag acts. I feel like we have to fight for the term herstory and this feels wrong. They are blokes! I’m not clever enough to write down why I find this annoying. Why do I?!

Because the very oppressors are claiming victimhood and telling the actual victims to stfu (give us validation or we'll call you a bigot).

How is blackface different from womanface?

Because it's purpose was to demean black people and nearly all black people, throughout history found it offensive.

That is not the case in the UK.🤷‍♀️ It's ok to be offended by it. I and many others are not. I have seen many acts where men dress as women that have been funny, witty, warm, intelligent and amazing.🤩 Some have been meh, others, shit and a few have been offensive. But that was to do with the content/performance, rather than the fact it was drag.

I too agree it’s absolutely the same as blackface.

It is the same as blackface.

Toobigformyboots total bollocks.
Many black people abused other blacks and did the work of their white slaves.
Whether one woman or so called woman ie a man, approves if drag is absolutely irrelevant. See my above point.

I dislike the term womanface because I have read very compelling posts on previous threads about the horrendous violence which went along with blackface and how it 'womanface' doesn't compare in terms of the threat to life and attempts at utter dehumanisation.

So I don't think the two are comparable but I still find drag to be an attempt to humiliate and demean women.