Casual racism or AIBU

[Kooksadooks]

Hello. I have a lot on my mind today but hope you are having a nice New Years Eve…
We (me, DP, MIL, FIL, DS ect) were sat around the TV over Christmas period.
The Channel 5 advert featuring Anne Bolelyn played by black actress Jodie Turner-Smith comes on and MIL starts complaining that she ‘doesn’t understand all this’ and ‘Anne Bolelyn wasn’t black’ and doesn’t understand ‘why white people cannot play black people’…
I bit my tongue, I appreciate that I am surrounded by people who agree with her and there’s no point in arguing with them about what I think, also not wanting to cause drama over Christmas but AIBU to feel uncomfortable at MIL’s comments?
I mentioned it to DP afterwards and he agrees with MIL

I don't think it's racist to think it's strange for a white historical figure to be played by a black actress. I'd find it strange and hard to believe if they cast a white actor as, say, Martin Luther king.

The problem is when you hold this opinion and people try to shout you down as being a racist, you don't necessarily change your view - you just keep your opinion to yourself in public. And that can be dangerous IMO.

The people here who say they are black/mixed race and don't find it racist - well their opinion is just as valid as those who do find it racist. My problem is when certain people try to shut down and silence others who hold a different opinion to them.
Sometimes there is no right or wrong, just difference of opinion.

Obviously the makers of this version of Anne Boleyn wanted to attract publicity and get people talking about it and it seems to have worked! Maybe it's just a very shrewd move on their part.

@Kooksadooks Of course YABU, and I bet you're disappointed with the poll result and some of the comments here.

If a white person is not allowed to play a black person, then a black person cannot play a white person. Fact.

And yes, saying fact DOES make it correct.

@Ionlydomassiveones

I don’t see what’s racist about saying something factual. Anne Boleyn wasn’t black and it’s quite jarring for those of us who like historical drama to have the facts distorted. Same with war movies made in Hollywood that always make the Americans the heroes.

This stupid overreaction to any opinion that isn’t 100% ‘right on’ is why we’ve got this insufferable woke cancel culture. YABU. Get a grip and move on.

This. I also find it jarring when there is an obvious physical mismatch (not necessarily racial) between the younger and older versions of the same character. I would find it offensive if a non-black actor were to play someone like Martin Luther King.

It’s not the same as an actor not being gay or a serial killer (or having any other invisible characteristic) in real life.

@pigalow

White actor Ben Kingsley won an Oscar for playing Mahatma Gandhi! - I think Ben Kingsley has dual heritage and one of his parents is Indian.

So not white then…

I think that real people being portrayed should be played by actors of the same race.

I think fictional characters should be open to be played by anybody.

This doesn't make me racist I just think that real people should be played by someone appropriate to their race.

@Bluebluemoon

I don't think it's racist to think it's strange for a white historical figure to be played by a black actress. I'd find it strange and hard to believe if they cast a white actor as, say, Martin Luther king.

The problem is when you hold this opinion and people try to shout you down as being a racist, you don't necessarily change your view - you just keep your opinion to yourself in public. And that can be dangerous IMO.

The people here who say they are black/mixed race and don't find it racist - well their opinion is just as valid as those who do find it racist. My problem is when certain people try to shut down and silence others who hold a different opinion to them.
Sometimes there is no right or wrong, just difference of opinion.

Obviously the makers of this version of Anne Boleyn wanted to attract publicity and get people talking about it and it seems to have worked! Maybe it's just a very shrewd move on their part.

I agree with ALL of the above, except for the last paragraph, (about it being a shrewd move on their part.) I will NOT be watching this programme. Not with such a ridiculous move as getting a black actress to play a historical figure who was white.

@Lndnmummy You are a White woman, aren't you? Did you just join a Black woman to call Black and Mixed race women "tap-dancers" because they have a different opinion? And you think that doesn't make you racist?

This is what happens when some White people think they're part of the in-crowd - they think they can say anything.

The audacity! Don't you dare!

Let Black people speak for themselves. Rightly or wrongly, they don't need your help.

I’m not disappointed no… I wanted people’s point of view and that’s what I got

@MasterBeth

I find the ignorance on this thread depressing.

The reason why a white actor playing a black character is far more problematic than a black actor playing a white character is a centuries-old history of colonialism, enslavement, racism and discrimination.

Did no-one notice Black Lives Matter? At all?

Yes dear.

@My200lbLife

It’s patronising tokenism. I’m Black before you all start.

There should be more done on black stories - there are plenty. With black actors.

AMEN to that! ^

@Bluebluemoon

I don't think it's racist to think it's strange for a white historical figure to be played by a black actress. I'd find it strange and hard to believe if they cast a white actor as, say, Martin Luther king.

The problem is when you hold this opinion and people try to shout you down as being a racist, you don't necessarily change your view - you just keep your opinion to yourself in public. And that can be dangerous IMO.

The people here who say they are black/mixed race and don't find it racist - well their opinion is just as valid as those who do find it racist. My problem is when certain people try to shut down and silence others who hold a different opinion to them.
Sometimes there is no right or wrong, just difference of opinion.

Obviously the makers of this version of Anne Boleyn wanted to attract publicity and get people talking about it and it seems to have worked! Maybe it's just a very shrewd move on their part.

Very shrewd move. It certainly got the programme noticed

@fiveminutebreak

I think we have to remember that for decades nearly all films and TV shows were written, produced and directed by white men. It is getting better but still lots of room for improvement. My point is that for so long white stories have dominated and therefore opportunities for black actors have been far fewer than for white. So it's redressing the balance a little.

The way to address it is not to say "hey, there's no interesting black characters worth making anything about so here, we'll let you play a white person" and have everyone pay themselves on the back in the name of inclusion.

They way to address it is to write black characters and write about black historical figures.

@AlbertCampion
Tokenism doesn’t diminish the talent of the actor or actress. Tokenism is purely about how it is literally a misuse of their talent and capability to be cast into/limited to only white historical figures as lipservice to diversity. As in saying, ok you’re good enough to be this white person, but we’d never do a film about anyone from your race because....booring....U.K. is centre of universe and only our history and historical people matter.

Black lives matter needs to come to the film industry. Where are the films showing all the past black lives that did matter? And showing history other than portraying black people as slaves...there’s thousands of years of rich history and fantastic lives to be celebrated that are simply ignored.

Certainly back to the times of Shakespeare men played women's parts and vice versa and pantomime had all that cross dressing and all boys' or all girls'' schools will always have had people of the wrong sex playing the other one - Mary in all boys' schools Christmas nativity plays will be played by a boy. I think my son was Mary one year - youngest in the class, although being white blonde with blue eyes he may not have been the best choice given the number of Jewish boys in he school who ethnically would have matched the mother of God better.

Sometimes programmes go over the top and it becomes too difficult to believe the story line - that's my take on it and that's a pity. I am now enjoying the New Dexter but the very first scenes made me feel like we had been moved for thos series to sa north Korean political education camp for a lecture rather than sitting at home enoying a show.As he's in Alaska I have no problem with his girl friend being native American and those tribal people being shown in the story - it is relevant interesting and part of it. However t put so many black African cops in there and then the man running the shop is gay and when the person without legs who works in the police station came on you are almost laughing at the ridiculousness of it. After the introduction of the cast of gay, black, disabled characters in the Alaskan village it has calmed down a bit and I have been able to get into the show but it just felt so very pretentious and contrived to start with. Midsomer Murders is another one - it suggests 50% of isolated English villagers are of BAME background from the vicars to the businessmen to the doctors. If it were inner London it would be more believable.

I consider my own opinion to be largely irrelevant given my white privilege

No, your opinion is not irrelevant, as the issue relates to white British cultural heritage (and how it's being distorted and disrespected by these 'productions').

Colour blind casting has been done many times. It's frankly lost it's edginess now and it's starting to become offensive for many.

Your MIL has a point OP. She is entitled to an opinion on how she would like her ancestors to be portrayed. She is unlikely to change her mind, irrespective of how many times you are intending to 'call her out'

It would also be interesting to know how your DP rates his life choices if he has to face his heritage and his DM being degraded constantly

I appreciate that I am surrounded by people who agree with her and there’s no point in arguing with them about what I think
I am an immigrant myself

Have you stopped to think why it is that most people around you are in agreement? Have you considered that perhaps you could be in the wrong given the context?

Also think about prominent historical figures from you birth country, would you like a British actor/actress to be cast for those roles? If you felt uncomfortable about that, would that make you prejudiced or just protective of your heritage?

Men played women's parts because women weren't allowed to act as it was thought to be immoral to do so.

Of course it’s not racist. Ann Boleyn wasn’t black. She’s not a fictional character, she was a real person.

It would be the same if a white actor played the part of a famous black person.

I am now enjoying the New Dexter

It's a shame they've done this. The first series was ingenious. By your description the 'new' version will be tedious, and politicised i.e. another unwatchable on the list

Midsomer Murders is another one - it suggests 50% of isolated English villagers are of BAME
You should watch famalam
They have a sketch called midsummer moyherfukxing murders and it's hilarious.

@Xenia

Certainly back to the times of Shakespeare men played women's parts and vice versa and pantomime had all that cross dressing and all boys' or all girls'' schools will always have had people of the wrong sex playing the other one - Mary in all boys' schools Christmas nativity plays will be played by a boy. I think my son was Mary one year - youngest in the class, although being white blonde with blue eyes he may not have been the best choice given the number of Jewish boys in he school who ethnically would have matched the mother of God better.

Sometimes programmes go over the top and it becomes too difficult to believe the story line - that's my take on it and that's a pity. I am now enjoying the New Dexter but the very first scenes made me feel like we had been moved for thos series to sa north Korean political education camp for a lecture rather than sitting at home enoying a show.As he's in Alaska I have no problem with his girl friend being native American and those tribal people being shown in the story - it is relevant interesting and part of it. However t put so many black African cops in there and then the man running the shop is gay and when the person without legs who works in the police station came on you are almost laughing at the ridiculousness of it. After the introduction of the cast of gay, black, disabled characters in the Alaskan village it has calmed down a bit and I have been able to get into the show but it just felt so very pretentious and contrived to start with. Midsomer Murders is another one - it suggests 50% of isolated English villagers are of BAME background from the vicars to the businessmen to the doctors. If it were inner London it would be more believable.

Xenia, you have said stupid fucking things in the past but saying that including black gay and disabled characters in a TV program is like living in North Korea is idiotic even for you.

Midsomer Murders is another one - it suggests 50% of isolated English villagers are of BAME

That must be fairlt recent since I've rarely seen any non white characters. I did give up when Jones left though.

I worry that by calling these casting decisions tokenism, we insult those wonderful actors who got the roles because they were the best people for the job. Couldn't that just be the case with the Anne Boleyn casting? Perhaps talent is more important than skin colour.

Really? How can you tell that someone is the best actor for the role and nobody could have done it better? Is there an objective measure for this?

And I’d be happier to see black people playing ‘white roles’ whilst we all get used to a new ‘order of things’

Would you care to elaborate what this new 'order' is and who has dictated that we need to get used to it?

The UK is a majority white country, hence it is to be expected that period dramas that people want to see are related to our own very prominent historical figures (which happen to be mostly white). It would be different in other countries, obviously

All this is laughable.

Just because a Black Woman played Anne Boleyn.

After decades of...Tarzan🤣king of the jungle
White man in blackface "pharoahs" but somehow all the Black people around are slaves.

White man mudface makeup playing Native Americans

Various African queens portrayed by White as the driven snow actresses.

It goes to show how delicate, deluded and frankly ludicrous White privilege is.

You're rankled hecause it's your turn and it serves you all right

If Jesus a middle-eastern man and his family showed up during this festive season seeking shelter, you'd clutch your pearls until you choked with eyes bulging

Farcical folk