Casual racism or AIBU

[Kooksadooks]

Hello. I have a lot on my mind today but hope you are having a nice New Years Eve…
We (me, DP, MIL, FIL, DS ect) were sat around the TV over Christmas period.
The Channel 5 advert featuring Anne Bolelyn played by black actress Jodie Turner-Smith comes on and MIL starts complaining that she ‘doesn’t understand all this’ and ‘Anne Bolelyn wasn’t black’ and doesn’t understand ‘why white people cannot play black people’…
I bit my tongue, I appreciate that I am surrounded by people who agree with her and there’s no point in arguing with them about what I think, also not wanting to cause drama over Christmas but AIBU to feel uncomfortable at MIL’s comments?
I mentioned it to DP afterwards and he agrees with MIL

I will dispute the colour of Anne Boleyn’s skin wasn’t important. I think the reason she is so infamous is because she was the most powerful woman in England at the time, she was as close to the king’s equal as it got societally. The Mother of the future queen, potential mother of the future king etc. Wealthy, noble, white etc. She was in no way his lesser beyond her gender… he easily murdered his wife and could do it for the sole reason of her being a woman. I would argue Anne Boleyn is a very important historical figure, her race included, to exemplify how far gender equality and the collapse of autocratic monarchism has come.

I find the ignorance on this thread depressing.

The reason why a white actor playing a black character is far more problematic than a black actor playing a white character is a centuries-old history of colonialism, enslavement, racism and discrimination.

Did no-one notice Black Lives Matter? At all?

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat

I think the issue is, why do we continue to make so many historical dramas about the Tudors? Why don't we make more black history dramas?

I don't have an issue per se in a dramatised play/drama with a black Anne Boleyn, but it isn't historically accurate and it isn't racist to point that out.

In fictional tv/film i think we should have wider diversity and would welcome female bond, black little mermaid and don't think that is virtue signalling.

I think AB story will always be popular, as it really is a key moment in our shared history. But as you say, there are lots of really good black and other origin stories that should be told. With the Little Mermaid, a black LM is fine, but as 'ginger' people are usually the butt of jokes, lack representation, it would have been nice to have a natural redhead play Ariel. But black Ariel is better than a well known blonde or brunette in a wig.

James Bond just an awful misogynistic character and I wish they'd retire him.

@MasterBeth yet many of us from BAME families have said we don’t have an issue with the MILS POV

I feel like Mumsnet needs a new deletion message:
This message has been hidden as the author was engaging in empty virtue signalling.

@Kooksadooks

I think you got offended because your white and as a white person your told regularly even if you don’t realise it that you should be standing up against racism which everyone should be but not everything - ie mentioning what your MIL said is racist or about racism.

I actually get fed up of people - mainly white people being offended about stuff about my race that myself and probably a lot of black - mixed race people wouldn’t think for one moment that it’s racist .
People should be able to talk about this without automatically thinking it’s racist to say what your MIL said and shutting the conversation down

I’m black btw I’m neither stupid or racist and I agree with your MIL- 100 percent I couldn’t read anything racist in what she said .
She was factually correct AB was white not black
My white husband is a ex pro boxer
It would be like him wanting to play Mohammed Ali - if he could act 😂 the only thing they would have in common Is being able to box to a high standard and being male
If a white man say like the Sylvester Stallone played MA there would be an uproar as he would be seen as taking the piss and taking a part from a black actor

whereas Will Smith was excellent and I personally didn’t ever question his acting as it was a black man playing a black boxer which was factually correct

@Sunshinelover2

Everybody knows the difference between a documentary and a drama yes? The difference between fiction and non-fiction?

In fiction it is not required that events be represented factually.

Your MIL is being racist or stupid, both can come across quite similarly.

You think Anne Boleyn is a fictional character? She’s buried in the chapel in the Tower of London. She was a real white woman who lived and was brutally murdered by her husband who was an all powerful and egotistical monarch.

@toddybell

I'm black and I agree with your MIL. Anne Boleyn wasn't Black so should be played by someone who factually represented who she was re: ethnicity . I'd feel the same if someone white came along and played Martin Luther King or Mary Jane Seacole or Harriet Seacole or Mahatma Ghandi, etc.

This

This is just something we have to all agree to disagree on. My family would all have different opinions. Personally, I say whatever promotes/celebrates diversity is the most important factor and who is the best actor/tress for that role regardless of what they look like- both ways.

@MasterBeth
Yes, it’s more problematic to portray an actual historical black person using a white actor, but it is still a problem to have a different race actor portray any actual historical person for whom we know for a fact what their race was.

[quote Hippychicken1]@Kooksadooks

I think you got offended because your white and as a white person your told regularly even if you don’t realise it that you should be standing up against racism which everyone should be but not everything - ie mentioning what your MIL said is racist or about racism.

I actually get fed up of people - mainly white people being offended about stuff about my race that myself and probably a lot of black - mixed race people wouldn’t think for one moment that it’s racist .
People should be able to talk about this without automatically thinking it’s racist to say what your MIL said and shutting the conversation down

I’m black btw I’m neither stupid or racist and I agree with your MIL- 100 percent I couldn’t read anything racist in what she said .
She was factually correct AB was white not black
My white husband is a ex pro boxer
It would be like him wanting to play Mohammed Ali - if he could act 😂 the only thing they would have in common Is being able to box to a high standard and being male
If a white man say like the Sylvester Stallone played MA there would be an uproar as he would be seen as taking the piss and taking a part from a black actor

whereas Will Smith was excellent and I personally didn’t ever question his acting as it was a black man playing a black boxer which was factually correct[/quote]
Great post, Thanks for saying it.

@TrishM80 he is of Indian descent actually, although fairly light skinned.

So what.. we've had years of real life Black characters played by White actors, those same actors also wear stupid looking dark makeup to play Native American and Asian characters.

Im glad bonehead racists are wound up now, theyre not even worthy of long detailed discussion.

Has anyone come on here yet to claim 'Im Black/Mixed and I agree with your in-Laws?'If not they'll tap dance along soon

I do not remember people getting annoyed with Natalie Portman portraying Anne Boleyn despite the fact Anne Boleyn was English and Natalie Portman is Israeli. Why is that?

Plenty of them deeceecherry.
I've bothered to read the whole thread and read those many black voices, who pointed out the tokenism, emptiness and problematic nature of this casting.

You should too.
Or do you only listen to black voices who agree with you.

Natalie Portman

Was the worst Anne Boleyn ever.
Including the Shakespeare plays when men dressed in drag.
Awful. Awful. Awful.

[quote RussianSpy101]@phishy jarring for who? I don’t think it is. It’s appropriate for the time.[/quote]
Jarring for me. Is that ok with you?

It is racist.

@DeeCeeCherry they sure have. We didn't even make it past page 1

@MaryBellingham11432

I do not remember people getting annoyed with Natalie Portman portraying Anne Boleyn despite the fact Anne Boleyn was English and Natalie Portman is Israeli. Why is that?

Nationality and religion is completely different from race, Natalie Portman is white. I don’t think historical accurate casting should extend to same religion. Besides Natalie Portman is a dual US and Israeli citizen. Before her family emigrated to Israel from America, they had previously emigrated from Poland, Austria, and Russia- all majority white countries.

@phishy in what way?

WorriedMumsDontSleep
*Plenty of them deeceecherry.
I've bothered to read the whole thread and read those many black voices, who pointed out the tokenism, emptiness and problematic nature of this casting

Many Black voices?!🤣

Sure

You're amongst many White voices bleating because a Black Woman played Anne Boleyn. Enjoy it🙂
Happy New Year

Being white isn't like original sin.
I would tag the many people who have said this but what would be the point when you couldn't even be bothered to read them yourself.
Pathetic virtue signalling at its finest.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable for choosing someone who doesn’t bare much physical resemblance to the historical figure to play the role as long as you have an actual reason for doing so. A valid reason might be:
A) an amateur production of some kind, where you have a talented performer who would otherwise be deprived a major role (to the loss of the audience etc). This would often happen in local theatre groups, schools plays etc.

B) in plays and films where artistic license is also being taken with the story in other regards.

If on the other other hand it’s being done “just because”, at the expense of equally talented actors who bare a closer resemblance to the historical figure in question - well that seems rather pointless.

@DeeCeeCherry have you actually read this entire thread? Or have you chosen to ignore, yes, the many black and mixed race voices on it?