Casual racism or AIBU

[Kooksadooks]

Hello. I have a lot on my mind today but hope you are having a nice New Years Eve…
We (me, DP, MIL, FIL, DS ect) were sat around the TV over Christmas period.
The Channel 5 advert featuring Anne Bolelyn played by black actress Jodie Turner-Smith comes on and MIL starts complaining that she ‘doesn’t understand all this’ and ‘Anne Bolelyn wasn’t black’ and doesn’t understand ‘why white people cannot play black people’…
I bit my tongue, I appreciate that I am surrounded by people who agree with her and there’s no point in arguing with them about what I think, also not wanting to cause drama over Christmas but AIBU to feel uncomfortable at MIL’s comments?
I mentioned it to DP afterwards and he agrees with MIL

@DeeCeeCherry

So you’re not only saying that the opinion of only one race matters but then dismissing and ridiculing the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you?

You sound delightful.

When it comes to racism I'll go out on a limb here and say yes, only the opinion of one race matters.

i.e. the people from race in question.

White actor Ben Kingsley won an Oscar for playing Mahatma Gandhi! - I think Ben Kingsley has dual heritage and one of his parents is Indian.

So was it tokenism when the immensely talented Lucian Msamati played Salieri in Amadeus at The National? His was the finest performance I have ever seen of the role. Surely we can't diminish that by saying his casting was tokenism?

Or what about Joan Iyiola in The Duchess of Malfi at The RSC - a performance which moved me to tears. The part wasn't written to be played by a black woman, but she made it more real than any other performance I have seen.

I worry that by calling these casting decisions tokenism, we insult those wonderful actors who got the roles because they were the best people for the job. Couldn't that just be the case with the Anne Boleyn casting? Perhaps talent is more important than skin colour.

@VladmirsPoutine

When it comes to racism I'll go out on a limb here and say yes, only the opinion of one race matters.

And yet even opinions of people of that race have been derided on here by @DeeCeeCherry.

Theatre, film and television ask the audience to suspend disbelief to very different degrees.
A cardboard set works on stage, not on screen.

A blonde Anne Boleyn would be inaccurate. It's integral to her story. A clumsy AB, fat AB or stupid AB all wouldn't work because it erases part of her character intertwined with the story.
A black Anne Boleyn changes the possible motivations for her downfall which were political, religious and gender based. As previously said, an all black cast would cancel this out. I'd definitely watch that.
I'm not watching an Anne Boleyn who is so far removed from the truth it would literally change history if she'd been queen. It whitewashes the struggles of people at that time and since. Pretending that a black woman could have had the rank that ab had denies the racism at the time and since.
And I think ignoring the black voices on this thread and accusing them of being 'white' is fairly racist in itself.

@LostForIdeas

The problem I have with white people pay white characters and black people play black characters only is that most of the classics, books etc… have all been written about white people by white people. Most of the important characters in history are white etc…

So that doesn’t leave a lot of space for black people to play important/recognised parts and characters iyswim.

There are loads of important characters/people from history who are not white, would probably be good to share some of their stories and create films/shows about them!

I'm with worriedmumsdon'tsleep l think it would have been better if all the cast, Fat Henry and all, were black. As it was it made it look as if racism was a part of Bolyn's fall - which it obviously wasn't, instead of class, which very much was.
I'd like to see black women's stories being told, rather than having black actors shoehorned into wornout narratives to give them a bit of oomph. A series about Josephine Baker for example, she had an amazing life!

And Henry would need to be over 6ft athletic and strapping at the beginning and then have a progressive fat suit/ make up added.

The thing that makes his story more sharp is that he started out such a promising, liberal prince and ended up a tyrant.

@XelaM @LondonWolf etc. - a film about Chernobyl has nothing to do with 'Russia' or 'The Russians'.

Ukraine, formerly part of the USSR but not part of Russia since 1917.

I think it's.pretty insulting to assume there are no black stories worth telling.
Even in the early modern period, some parts of the globe where black people were in the majority were far more advanced than their white counterparts. Medicine is one area for example where Europe was literally stuck in the dark ages for a long time and were outshone their visiting black doctors.

@LondonWolf I'm aware of that. The good sis @DeeCeeCherry has had it with wayward opinions on race threads on MN for a while now!

[quote RussianSpy101]@MasterBeth yet many of us from BAME families have said we don’t have an issue with the MILS POV[/quote]
There have also been people who have taken issue with the MIL's POV although whose to say what race they are as they have not explicitly stated so in the hope to add some 'weight' to their opinion!

film about Chernobyl has nothing to do with 'Russia' or 'The Russians'.

Nothing to do with Russia. Really? Chernobyl had nothing to do with Russia?

[quote VladmirsPoutine]**@LondonWolf* I'm aware of that. The good sis @DeeCeeCherry* has had it with wayward opinions on race threads on MN for a while now! [/quote]
Wayward. So there’s only one way to think of you’re a POC? The way you think?

Got it 😊

@lap90 of course it adds weight! Absolutely ridiculous to think that a black person doesn’t hold a valid opinion as to what constitutes racism towards black people.

Nothing to do with Russia. Really? Chernobyl had nothing to do with Russia?

Well it wasn't in Russia at the time and It's still not in Russia, so what does it have to do with Russia? USSR yes, Ukraine yes, not Russia.

It's also interesting how someone brought up the subject of a black Hitler.
In England Anne Boleyn is seen as a dividing figure, but her role as mother of our greatest monarch and her own much admired determination and charisma mean she is celebrated here.
However in many European countries she is still so hated they call her the great whore and burn effigies of her. She is not considered a sympathetic or neutral person of history there.
However, I assume this was a British production with a British audience. It does make me wonder whether the same casting decisions would have been made in a film.

@RussianSpy101
lap90 of course it adds weight! Absolutely ridiculous to think that a black person doesn’t hold a valid opinion as to what constitutes racism towards black people

I think this is what I struggle with is that so many white people often assume they think they know what a lot of black / ethnic minorities would consider to be racist and often won’t accept that many BAME don’t consider a lot of the stuff that is assumed to be racist is racist .

I am showing my age now 😂 but I remember being at my birthday party when I was a kid and Boney M
“brown girl in the ring” was being played and I was in the middle of the ring dancing surrounded mby my friends all of us dancing .
When I told this story to a white friend she was horrified and went off in a long long rant about how racist my friends - who were probably about 10 years old must have been to have dances wrong me and sang that song and how did my parents even allow this and how traumatising it must have been for me 😂
I’m like it was a catchy song by a popular group at the time.
I was more traumatised by her endless ranting about it 😂

I don't think the problem is about Anne Boleyn being playing by a black woman...as you have said other comments have been made.

That being said I do not agree with the casting of Anne Boleyn in this particular series. I think when it is a historical program based on history this should not be done.
With fictional works however unless there are specific details regarding a character then there should be no problem with whoever is cast.

[quote RussianSpy101]@lap90 of course it adds weight! Absolutely ridiculous to think that a black person doesn’t hold a valid opinion as to what constitutes racism towards black people.[/quote]
It's a good thing i didn't state otherwise. Like I said, there have also been people who have taken issue with the MIL's POV although whose to say what race they are as they have not explicitly stated so.

@DeeCeeCherry

So what.. we've had years of real life Black characters played by White actors, those same actors also wear stupid looking dark makeup to play Native American and Asian characters.

Im glad bonehead racists are wound up now, theyre not even worthy of long detailed discussion.

Has anyone come on here yet to claim 'Im Black/Mixed and I agree with your in-Laws?'If not they'll tap dance along soon

So you didn’t read the thread then. By the way you sound really angry. Something wind you up?

[quote saraclara]@DeeCeeCherry have you actually read this entire thread? Or have you chosen to ignore, yes, the many black and mixed race voices on it?[/quote]
Of course they have ignored it. Because when black or any other members of a non-white ethnic group disagree about there being racism is something, they are conveniently ignored and the circus rolls in banging the drum about racism. It’s ironic and like a satirical sketch at the same time.

Historically it is inaccurate for Ann Boleyn to be portrayed as black, equally it would be historical inaccurate for Mary Seacole to be played as white.