How do we decide 'social class'?

[badspella]

I have been reading one or two threads about 'social class', and it reminded me that I am really confused about the whole notion of social classification (the labels we use, rather than stratification itself).

For example, I know a family who are farmers. They own a good few acres of prime land, and live in a large listed house. However, the house is falling to pieces (holes in the roof, rotten floorboards and so on) and the grandfather left school before receiving any formal qualifications. The son (who now farms the land) completed secondary education. All the family speak with a strong regional accent. The farm is worth well over £1 million.

What class are they?

Then, there is one of my friends who has a masters degree and PhD, is a university lecturer. She was brought up in a large detached house, but, she lives in a rented council house.

What class is she?

I must state that I do not spend my time trying to fit people into little boxes, but I do wonder how 'class' is 'decided', especially when contexts are so complex.

Accent....?

Not everybody has a very clear class. People can leave tribes, reject tribes, change tribes swim against the grain.
I question that education is 'a high class' trait or that laziness is high class trait.
A million pound house is normal in a city.

As a foreigner, I was perceived to have gone down a class in london which made me realise how ridiculous it is as part of an identity. I decided to consider myself exempt from classification from then on. What other people think of me is none of my business.
I want to work on my values etc

It depends which class system you’re using but house value is surely irrelevant, the farmer would be working class and for your friend there’s not enough information on her parents to know, what does the house she grew up in or the house she has now have to do with it?

I don’t know because this is something I’ve only ever read about on MN where people seem obsessed with class.
In real life I have never had a discussion about someone’s class and I’m in my 60’s.

It was something I was taught at secondary school in human geography I think

Well there's loads of markers for social class aren't there? Money isn't that relevant I would say.

@Fairyliz

I don’t know because this is something I’ve only ever read about on MN where people seem obsessed with class. In real life I have never had a discussion about someone’s class and I’m in my 60’s.

I’d say that’s fairly bizarre if you live in the U.K.

It isn't real.

There are rich people and poor people. Plenty of people with piles of money have no class and plenty of people who have been poor for generations are full of class.

Working class, middle class, upper class is silly crap. People either have class or they don't and it isn't related to money or housing.

Read 'Watching the English' by Kate Fox. Very funny and explains it all perfectly. Essentially you're only upper class if you're really upper class, you know if you're working class and mostly proud of it, everyone else is middle class but some people want to be seen as more superior to others and tie themselves in knots buying the 'right' things and saying the 'right words'.

I grew up abroad so was totally confused when I got here at 18. I didn't realise that at first meeting people were asking certain questions to rank me. Now I see who's doing it and who can bugger off quite frankly 😊

Op. Class isn’t about how much your house is worth or what you earn, or the condition of your house.

Technically both are middle class, one runs a business, the farmers, they do much more than farm the land as labourers, and the second is also in a skilled role.

Class covers many factors, but generally the key indicators are unskilled Labour working for a wage is working class, skilled and salaried is middle class, business owners would be skilled generally, clearly not possibly soneone who sells body lotion on a pyramid scheme, but something like owning and managing a large farm would be.

People don't care about class anymore.

In the UK, anyway. Apart form those desperate to prove they're better than someone else.

I consider class to be fading out to an extent. Many more people are 'middle class'.

For me is class, education, job type, social awareness & understanding, sometimes earnings.

I'd say the farmers are middle class, the educated person in the council house is also middle class.

Most Non Brits tend not to be classified by class by Brits.

Very few people are upper class. For example, the Middleton family are firmly middle class. The farming family, regardless of assets, will be working class. The university lecturer would, on paper, be middle class.

Traditionally it was based on educational attainment and occupation but its much more layered and complex now.
I personally think its quite fluid and decided by other peoples point of view. Depending on who was viewing me I could be very much working class or middle class.

We don’t because it is silly.
Get on with your life OP.

Then they're is social mobility so your class isn't fixed all your life anyway. Though that used to be more possible to achieve than it is these days.
I was poor growing up and now I'm comfortable but not well off, father was a labourer I have a profession, so if day I was working class but now I'm middle class. But I never ask someone what they do for a living when I meet them, such a tedious way to start a conversation, and I judge people by how they treat others above anything else.

@WhiteCatmas

We don’t because it is silly. Get on with your life OP.

It's just a conversation, no need to be scathing.

@Bouncer500

It isn't real.

There are rich people and poor people. Plenty of people with piles of money have no class and plenty of people who have been poor for generations are full of class.

Working class, middle class, upper class is silly crap. People either have class or they don't and it isn't related to money or housing.

Having "class" and the class system are different things.

For me, real class is a mix of good manners, value placed on education, tolerance and the ability to get on with almost anyone.

Some people obviously have a headstart depending on their family history but anyone can achieve it.

Realistically you don’t decide because the vast majority of people are working class. In my experience the only people who go on about class are a specific type who are working class but think they’re ‘better than.’ They look down on things they associate with the ‘working class’ to kind of imply that their own taste is superior.

I’ve never really thought about it.

If my husband and I didn’t work we wouldn’t be able to live so I’m working class which I imagine is the majority of people.

I quite like ruminating about class. I recommend Grayson Perry's series "All in the best possible taste', but it is essentially as @Malariahilaria describes above.

In modern Britain there is a huge middle class now, and a smaller working class than before. The upper classes stay pretty static as you can only really access it by birth or marriage.
The upper classes are exceptionally self assured, and have no need to prove their position in the hierarchy. Working classes are usually quite proud and also have an assuredness about their place in society, usually with stronger community ties. The middle classes are where all the action is. Many want to be seen as upper class, and definitely not working class. This drives a lot of the consumer behaviour we see. It is not just consumerism though, as can be seen recently with some threads on here about baby names and jobs. Everything must be 'respectable'.

If in doubt re class, it’s always helpful to check if the parents use a dummy on the baby.

I don't understand the obsession with labelling people into classes though, why do people care so much?

@Fairyliz

I don’t know because this is something I’ve only ever read about on MN where people seem obsessed with class. In real life I have never had a discussion about someone’s class and I’m in my 60’s.

Same here. I've never heard anybody at all mentioned class outside of mumsnet.