MN and their approach to autism

[HypocrisyHere]

I have attached two screenshots. One showing the two threads I’m watching, the other the deletion message from the first watched thread which was deleted.

The subjects of the two threads are

(1) Any ‘positive’ autism stories?
(2) Married to someone with Asperger’s: support thread 5

My confusion is that the first was deleted because “the title was not in spirit of the site” Yet thread 2 - which has (IMO) a deeply offensive as it implies all people with Asperger’s are a problem in a relationship (leaving aside the ghastly ableism within the thread) is absolutely fine?

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted. Thread 2 is for concerned partners who can blame every poor behaviour of their partners on autism and that’s all fine?

As an autistic person this makes no sense to me at all and highlights not only ableism within MNHQ but also a deeply inconsistent approach to moderation?

(Have name changed as I’m a coward)

But the pet owner/other person in a relationship is also important, and your disregard for them says everything really.

Let's not beat around the bush then. In reality, the owner would have had the cat euthanised.

Functional labels are outdated, harmful and prevent autistic people from accessing help.

But, by all means continue using them if this is your objective

It's overblown to jump to "in this analogy, they'd kill a healthy animal".

The analogy doesn't necessarily work anyway, and it breaks down further when you stretch it for rhetorical effect. It isn't making the point you want it to make.

Functional labels are outdated, harmful and prevent autistic people from accessing help.

I agree with this.

You don't know what point I'm making, that's the problem.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

But, by all means continue using them if this is your objective

Why would you assume anyone has a malicious objective?

I am one of the people challenging you on this, and I personally don't use functioning labels to describe autistic people - I broadly agree with you that they're best avoided. But I think you're being incredibly controlling to try and say no one should ever use them, ever (!), even if they feel it's what works best for them. So, it's far from being the case that I want to use these labels or have any negative intent. I think your attitude is rigid and harmful.

Desperate to deny autistic people help some of you. Very strange.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation Why do you think I don't know what point you're making? I think I do; I just disagree with you.

Do you believe that everyone would agree with you if they understood? To me that seems very unrealistic. I can understand your POV and still disagree.

Or would you just help the less annoying ones? Are some of us less annoying, more deserving perhaps?

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Desperate to deny autistic people help some of you. Very strange.

What's your justification for this claim?

By denying that functional labels are objectively wrong.

I'm not rigid, just up to date.

@Innocenta you are absolutely determined to put down autistic people aren’t you? Certainly not all scientific achievement has been down to autistic people but many paradigm shifting discoveries are; Isaac newton, Charles Darwin, Paul Dirac, Albert Einstein. Because of the way we can sometimes think differently, this helps - sometimes - with scientific discovery (and I am speaking from actual Experience as a scientist). I really know that doesn’t apply to all autistic people, but for some of us it does.

But to suggest we are speaking like supremacists is absolutely ridiculous and extremely insulting. However it is consistent with your clear agenda to undermine the arguments we are making for being treated fairly. In my opinion that’s pretty low.

Are intellectually impaired people still called 'rs? Are hypothyroid infants still called 'ms' are people with cerebral palsy still referred to as 's*s'?

No, of course not.

Even the current healthcare professions have moved away from functional labels.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Functional labels are outdated, harmful and prevent autistic people from accessing help.

I don’t disagree. And I don’t personally use them. And use them to describe myself.

But although I don’t use them, I know other autistic people who do. Same as I wouldn’t say I had Asperger’s (I tend to say I’m autistic, if that matters), but I know people who do. Are you saying they shouldn’t be able to describe themselves in the way they wish?

It’s not about wanting to deny people help (what little there is of it available). It’s allowing them to define themselves.

And don’t use them to describe myself.

@HypocrisyHere I'm not putting down autistic people at all. I find it interesting but disturbing that that's what you're taking away from me challenging some of the assumptions in this thread. Do you not see where I've said that I - for example - 100% support autistic people using preferred terminology? I just happen to mean all autistic people!

Why can't we disagree and discuss without you personally attacking me?

All people need to understand that they're harmful, including autistic people, healthcare professionals, everyone.

We're (autistics) doing ourselves a disservice by continuing to use them. By all means keep using them, but it's delaying progress. I like making progress, I like helping people, so I try to educate. Plus, it affects me and my son.

discuss without you personally attacking me

Congratulations, tick DARVO off our bingo pads 👏

Also, why is armchair and retrospective diagnosis okay, @HypocrisyHere, when it's applied to people you want to bring into the ND community? (A community that, I must remind you, I am part of.) Surely if you're against armchair diagnosis, that should be applied consistently?

I am not actually 100% against armchair diagnosis of either the living or the dead - so I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong to think some great scientists may have been autistic! It's very possible, I agree! But many people in this thread who have identified themselves as autistic have spoken strongly against diagnosing others. So there is some real inconsistency here.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

discuss without you personally attacking me

Congratulations, tick DARVO off our bingo pads 👏

MNHQ deleted one of your posts for breaking talk guidelines. Not one aimed at me - it was aimed at someone else entirely. This is nothing to do with me specifically, actually, as much as you may like to pretend that it is.

Why can't you tolerate polite challenge to your assumptions?

The effects of autism are apparent throughout history without even suspecting or naming individuals.

I don’t want to be in a group of “autistics”. I think that terminology is harmful and dehumanising,

I am happy to be included in a group of “autistic people” or “people with autism”.

Why can't you tolerate polite challenge to your assumptions?

Because they're as passive aggressive as they come and you appear to despise autistic people despite claiming to be one yourself.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

But the pet owner/other person in a relationship is also important, and your disregard for them says everything really.

Let's not beat around the bush then. In reality, the owner would have had the cat euthanised.

That's a huge reach and ridiculous.