MN and their approach to autism

[HypocrisyHere]

I have attached two screenshots. One showing the two threads I’m watching, the other the deletion message from the first watched thread which was deleted.

The subjects of the two threads are

(1) Any ‘positive’ autism stories?
(2) Married to someone with Asperger’s: support thread 5

My confusion is that the first was deleted because “the title was not in spirit of the site” Yet thread 2 - which has (IMO) a deeply offensive as it implies all people with Asperger’s are a problem in a relationship (leaving aside the ghastly ableism within the thread) is absolutely fine?

Thread 1 was from a concerned parent who may have used clunky wording but was looking for support - yet she has been deleted. Thread 2 is for concerned partners who can blame every poor behaviour of their partners on autism and that’s all fine?

As an autistic person this makes no sense to me at all and highlights not only ableism within MNHQ but also a deeply inconsistent approach to moderation?

(Have name changed as I’m a coward)

Yes that’s the backbone of my campaign. Care to come on board?

Yeah, sure 😃👍🏻

Absolutely nothing at all to do with refrigerator mothers or blaming women though. Don't know where you getting that from.

The 1960s, and France still subscribes to this abhorrent theory.

Nope, but what it's saying is that the person who buys the dog that's actually a cat is the one to make all of the compromises because the dog/cat can't. Fair enough, but that's more or less what the threads you're complaining about are full of people saying and why they are struggling

Well you're reading too much into it then. I don't give a rats ass what the pet owner is doing, merely how the cat is misunderstood and its behaviour misinterpreted.

I've heard of refrigerator mothers BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation. What I meant is that Thoosa's suggestion that womb environment is linked to the concept is novel and a bit paranoid.

@BessieFinknottle

I take it you're not a scientist *@Thoosa* .There's lots of evidence that conditions in utero do play a role. Maybe do a bit of research on the topic before you give your money away Absolutely nothing at all to do with refrigerator mothers or blaming women though. Don't know where you getting that from.

I’d love to give you the full answer to that but I can’t without sketching our my family tree with job titles and life histories.

Suffice to say autists often raise autists - diagnosed or not - for obvious reasons, which shouldn’t be pathologised as “environmental factors” when often it’s just parents being themselves and accepting their similar children as themselves (again diagnosed or not). So masking is reduced.

Then there’s assortative mating.

Also consider that women and mothers are often more open to diagnosis than men/fathers.

The “real” (lab-based) scientist in my family is the one who presents as most aspie but resents the idea, interestingly. Have had some interesting and amiable chats with them. I didn’t arrive randomly at my thesis, though.

@BessieFinknottle

I've heard of refrigerator mothers BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation. What I meant is that Thoosa's suggestion that womb environment is linked to the concept is novel and a bit paranoid.

I don’t think it’s paranoia, but thanks for the concern. I am a bit bored of women being made to feel guilt when we are still at the theorisation stage, though. It is after all women’s wombs AND women’s parenting that has long come on for criticism.

I do think it will be interesting when we have a couple more generations’ worth of diagnosis in families to consider, though.

Yeah, sure 😃👍🏻

Excellent.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

We need to move past this 'high functioning' vs 'low functioning' narrative. Amongst wider autistic communities it's just not tolerated anymore and it's seen as ableist.

Again, because you do not accept a label does not mean it has no relevance for others, or may not be apt for some to describe their personal situations.

It really isn't right to try to force everyone to use your preferred terminology.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

If they get rid of us they can kiss goodbye to any further scientific, medical or technological advances. Sure, some work may get done, but the big stuff will grind to a halt. There are reasons why Silicone Valley (and others) love autistic employees.

This is a supremacist attitude and very unsavoury.

I think we might be talking at cross-purposes Thoosa. What I said was
also some environmental effects or 'nuture' may be involved in some cases - by this I mostly mean womb environment or difficulties at birth.

I included 'mostly' because severe neglect/lack of interaction with other humans in the very early years can also cause problems in child development. I wasn't talking at all about the normal range of environments children are brought up in, by either autistic or NT parents - more the circumstances surrounding uterine and birth conditions.

Objectively there is no blame attached to a mother for poor outcomes due to illness during pregnancy or difficult births. Women may blame themselves however, just as people have difficulty with the concept that they've passed a faultly gene to their offspring (in conditions such as Huntington's for example) even though it's not their fault. The concept of refrigerator mothers is a different issue entirely. Thankfully mostly discredited, I didn't know about France.

I included 'mostly' because severe neglect/lack of interaction with other humans in the very early years can also cause problems in child development. I wasn't talking at all about the normal range of environments children are brought up in, by either autistic or NT parents - more the circumstances surrounding uterine and birth conditions.

Surely developmental damage (such as Romanian orphans tied to cots, I also think there was a famous early french case study of a little girl) shouldn’t be lumped in with autism proper m? I’m aware it sometimes has been but aren’t we past that now?

It really isn't right to try to force everyone to use your preferred terminology.

The wider autistic community rejects these labels.

This is a supremacist attitude and very unsavoury.

You think @BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation is promoting a autism-supremacist narrative? Seriously?

It’s hardly novel to observe that many paradigm-shifting scientists and thinkers have been autistic or assumed autistic, is it?

This is a supremacist attitude and very unsavoury.

Oh dear, really? And here's me just demonstrating a bit of pride in the achievements of those I share a community with. Y'know, like other communities do.

It’s hardly novel to observe that many paradigm-shifting scientists and thinkers have been autistic or assumed autistic, is it?

Current fashions appear to elevate the mediocre, perhaps I'm wrong in recognising achievement

Yay, Go Go Instagram Influencers 😃

Yay, Go Go Instagram Influencers

😏

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

It really isn't right to try to force everyone to use your preferred terminology.

The wider autistic community rejects these labels.

You don’t speak for the entire community, though. I personally don’t like the labels, but I know people who do. It’s not for anyone to say how they should and shouldn’t refer to themselves.

A bit like I hate the term “autistics”, I find it personally offensive to be described as that, but would not challenge another autistic person’s right to use that term about themselves / others who don’t have a preference.

www.ncmh.info/2019/04/04/fallacy-functioning-labels/

The wider autistic community rejects functional labels.

Autistic people have the right to express themselves and define their condition.

I don't speak for the entire community, but the rejection of functional labels is objectively right and is now forming the narrative going forward.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

www.ncmh.info/2019/04/04/fallacy-functioning-labels/

The wider autistic community rejects functional labels.

Autistic people have the right to express themselves and define their condition.

Yes, so the autistic people I know who describe themselves as high-functioning are perfectly entitled to do so.

I’ve never even heard of the organisation in your link. Clearly this autistic person is excluded from the wider autistic community that you refer to. Is there a membership badge?

Autistic people have the right to express themselves and define their condition.

I totally agree with this - 100%. And that includes people who do not agree with you and who want to use terminology you dislike.

@Innocenta

Autistic people have the right to express themselves and define their condition.

I totally agree with this - 100%. And that includes people who do not agree with you and who want to use terminology you dislike.

Sorry, I'm crap at tagging. That was @BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Nope, but what it's saying is that the person who buys the dog that's actually a cat is the one to make all of the compromises because the dog/cat can't. Fair enough, but that's more or less what the threads you're complaining about are full of people saying and why they are struggling

Well you're reading too much into it then. I don't give a rats ass what the pet owner is doing, merely how the cat is misunderstood and its behaviour misinterpreted.

But the pet owner/other person in a relationship is also important, and your disregard for them says everything really.

autisticadvocacy.org/2021/12/functioning-labels-harm-autistic-people/