She was 42?! I’m 44

[AmIoldbutdontrealiseit]

Shirley Valentine. Sat watching it on Channel 5, obviously seen it before but when very young so it didn’t have quite the same impact.
Cannot believe she was 42, I’ve just turned 44 and whilst I don’t feel young, I’m surely not frumpy and middle aged, pretty as she was, if you know what I mean?
The anorak wearing, egg and chip making and very mumsy, almost grandma feel?
I realise it was set in the 80’s but is it that we look/act younger now, or that we’re really middle aged and frumpy but don’t realise it 😬
In comparison, I have a 3 year old Dd, a career, live abroad, have longer hair, wear converse, parka and Gucci bag (just example today’s outfit) use Instagram, have many interests. My life is mainly centred around Dd so isn’t wild as in before, clubbing, festivals, travelling etc…but..is this what my age is really like inside?

Hope that made sense 🤣

I am also 42 and I bumped into Tom Conti in a petrol station.
Actually - I can really relate to Shirley right now - I feel my life is just being everyone’s bitch and I’ve had enough.

TBH you paint a picture of a certain group of women but there are other women- professionals- you do start again at 60 or thereabouts and whose lives are not like the one you describe. Often they have their own careers still, a good pension and are still attractive

You are talking about an exceptional woman with an exceptional vocational niche who manages to restart her career at 60. The statistics are stark at how much harder it gets to find a job as people age, and those statistics show that age discrimination starts younger for women than men. For both sexes its much, much harder once you reach your 50's, and I know people in their late 40's who have had lengthy periods of unemployment and had to take massive drops in pay and level of job to get back into work.

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@LittleRoundRobin TBH you paint a picture of a certain group of women but there are other women- professionals- you do start again at 60 or thereabouts and whose lives are not like the one you describe. Often they have their own careers still, a good pension and are still attractive. Many divide up the family assets of a big house and have enough for a very nice home of their own.

There are also women who are widowed in their 50s and 60s who manage to meet men again. I know one who had 2 more men after her husband died- she outlived them all.[/quote]
I rest my case..............

[quote AmIoldbutdontrealiseit]**@Beamur* I feel like pretty much all trainers are criticised in some way. If I wear my Adidas Gazelles from the 90’s I’m still stuck in that era (which I probably am in lots of ways) if I wear new, chunky Nikes, I shouldn’t, because I’m not 19, other makes are too Mumsy apparently 🤷🏻‍♀️Can’t win[/quote]
Yeah but the people making these decisions are the teens They cringe at us now but they’re told whats cool by the marketers, plus they’ll look back and cringe at what they’re wearing themselves.. basically it’s all a load of bs! Go by what your eyes enjoy seeing on your feet, IMO!

Pauline Collins was 49 when she made the Shirley Valentine film.

@endofbluenight

TBH you paint a picture of a certain group of women but there are other women- professionals- you do start again at 60 or thereabouts and whose lives are not like the one you describe. Often they have their own careers still, a good pension and are still attractive

You are talking about an exceptional woman with an exceptional vocational niche who manages to restart her career at 60. The statistics are stark at how much harder it gets to find a job as people age, and those statistics show that age discrimination starts younger for women than men. For both sexes its much, much harder once you reach your 50's, and I know people in their late 40's who have had lengthy periods of unemployment and had to take massive drops in pay and level of job to get back into work.

100% this. ^ As I said, only in the parallel world of mumsnet does a woman 55+ start a wonderful new life and new career, and bag a man 20 years younger, and have men half her age falling at her feet.

The Shirley Valentine scenario is far more likely... 'I planned on leaving him when the kids left home... But now they've gone, there's nowhere to go.' THAT is the real-life scenario for most women aged 55+ (even 50+,) NOT some fantasy life from a shit chicklit novel, where her life turns wonderful with a snazzy new career, a cool apartment in central London, and a £75K a year career.

That just doesn't happen to the VAST majority of women 50+. It just doesn't. And definitely not to women 60+.

Most women who find themselves kidding divorced at 40 proceed to spend the rest of their lives in poverty sadly. I was lucky in that I got out at 37 I think if it had been left any later I would’ve been serious financial trouble.

Well my nan looked older at 40 than my mum did. It's just the fashion and styles changing. I look younger than my mum did in her 40s and I'm in my 40s.

I don't think it's about people actually looking older essentially. I think it's just you associate the styles of then with people who were a lot older than you then or when you last saw the film. Therefore you think that you maybe look younger at the same age because you are wearing styles of now or not wearing styles you associate with the generation above. I mean if you look at the styles of the eighties even the glam versions they are very particular and will date a person to more of that time. People often stick to the style of a particular time of their life - hair particularly. Which means that style gets associated with a particular generation. My grandmother's hair was short and curled. But in her youth that would have been fashionable. But became associated with an old lady look later on because they all stuck with it. What I did like from the eighties was that in the big glossy soaps like Dallas and dynasty there were a lot of middle-aged women who were the main glamour puss characters. Joan Collins and Linda Evans etc. And it wasn't all about them trying to look young. But having huge hair and shoulders and looking powerful!!! Who really remembers the younger characters on dynasty? It was all about Alexis and Chrystal. I think the style wasn't very young looking. Because looking that expensive was not how a young person tends to look particularly then. Obviously Shirley Valentine is a downtrodden character to begin with so she will have been a bit dowdy and frumpy for the times too. But I don't think she essentially looks older. I find this thread slightly odd as it seems to be asking are people now as frumpy and old looking as a woman in the eighties who was representing someone who felt frumpy and trapped before her time? So obviously that makes little sense. If she was portraying another sort of character she would have other associations for you.

Everybody saying fashion back then was aging - I think maybe it was a bit but it's mostly that to us those fashions now look period. They remind us of what our mums/nans wore and therefore we associate that look with age.

A lot of todays fashions are also very aging. The fake look with very heavy foundation, contouring, lots of dark eyeliner and heavy lips + long straight hair currently in vogue make teenagers and 20 somethings look like middle aged women. Floaty, floral midi dresses aren't flattering either. A lovely willowy young woman can make them look good but if a busty middle aged woman like me puts one on I look like Ma in Little House on the Prairie or my granny in her wrap around pinny. This will have an upside for todays youth as they will definitely start to look younger as they age and a more natural look comes back into fashion.

I also think that having tattoos will soon age people. They will no longer be taboo or edgy. They will be slightly faded and distorted things that Nanna and Dad thought were cool 30 years ago.

Why does a woman need a snazzy new career, much less a new man, though, to leave? Obviously the devil is in the details, but if you're miserable with a man, as long as you can support yourself wouldn't you be better off in a small flat, and who needs a new man, much less a younger one? Most women will finish their lives alone in any case as they're usually younger than male partners and live longer; why would you rather be stuck with a man you hate than be single?

Shirley Valentine is one of my bugbears. As is Educating Rita. They are written by the same bloke, Willy Russell.
I always felt that they were mansplaining to me what women's oppression looked like.

It's fiction, it's not a documentary. It's what they think a "frumpy and middle aged" character looked like, especially when forced into that by life circumstance. That's the whole point of her.

@BlondeDogLady

Let's not forget Botox is rife now, but it wasn't available back then. Me and almost all of the women I know have Botox.

I don't know anyone who has Botox.

Im 43, feel 83 often due to chronic ill health

Glasses. There used to be so few styles certainly no designer frames everyone wore the same.
My Mum pretty much looked like this.
www.google.co.uk/search?q=deidre+barlow+80s+perm&client=safari&hl=en-gb&sxsrf=AOaemvKKylsZZkQ0kJX3dPCtDY2jIlbdEg%3A1640866206695&ei=nqHNYZbcKZCUxc8PyLqO0As&oq=deidre+barlow+80s+perm&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyCAghEBYQHRAeOgcIABBHELADOgQIABAKOgQIABANOgcIIRAKEKABOgYIABAWEB5KBAhBGABQ7whY3SNgnCZoAXABeACAAZoBiAHFCJIBAzEuOJgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=S973iVZqoFNLbM
I’ve just dug out a photo of us on holiday my mum is only 43. Short perm, Deirdre Barlow glasses, unflattering cotton just past skirt in jaunty colours, baggy sweater and peep toes with cork wedge heel (all from M & S) All the mums in my suburban street looked like this.

It was a different world. When I started primary school (70s), I had the oldest mother in the class. Mum was 26 🙀

Now that I think about it, my boss, who is in her late fifties, left her shit husband when their kids flew the nest. She's glamorous, has a lovely flat, a great career, and a new partner, the same age, who has a great career and grown kids of his own. Yes, not every woman can be my boss, and she's where she is because she hung on like grim death with no support to her own job and career when her DC were younger, but to suggest you just have to put up with whatever waste of space man you find yourself lumbered with when your kids leave home is just as unrealistic as the idea that you're going to waltz into a new career and a 20 years younger man at 60. As I recall from divorce stats, the most common scenario is a woman initiating divorce in midlife.

I don't think it's about people actually looking older essentially. I think it's just you associate the styles of then with people who were a lot older than you then or when you last saw the film

I think that's true to an extent but not entirely. My mum looked similar to me at my current age (early 50s), allowing for fashion changes, but my Dad at 50 looked more like a 65 year old of today. It's things like the cut of his hair, which was very different from how a 30 year old of the time would have worn it, whereas - these days - a 30 year old and 50 year old man would probably opt for similar styles.

Have you seen the interviews of Princess Di just before she got married? She was 20. (Yes, seriously, 20!). She looked 40. Styles then were dreadfully frumpy.

@NotMyYear123

Have you seen the interviews of Princess Di just before she got married? She was 20. (Yes, seriously, 20!). She looked 40. Styles then were dreadfully frumpy.

The Duchess of Cambridge dresses like a 50-year-old always has

@endofbluenight Great, it’s coming 😢

I've been wanting to watch it, I looked at the trailer the other day (I am also 44) but I immediately thought it was just fascinating that 42 was kind of 'deep in middle age and past it' at that time. Someone like Shirley would likely be married for 20 years by then, whereas these days it's more likely someone her age would be married for less than 10 year, possibly not even 5.

Remember, as to 'looking older', we all tend to stick with the styles of our youth, so she's wearing a style that looks 'old' to us now. It's like when you watch old Top of the Pops from the 80s and all the teenagers in the audience have bouffant hair that you'd expect in someone 40 years older, because that's how they kept wearing their hair through life!

@ZoeTheThornyDevil

Now that I think about it, my boss, who is in her late fifties, left her shit husband when their kids flew the nest. She's glamorous, has a lovely flat, a great career, and a new partner, the same age, who has a great career and grown kids of his own. Yes, not every woman can be my boss, and she's where she is because she hung on like grim death with no support to her own job and career when her DC were younger, but to suggest you just have to put up with whatever waste of space man you find yourself lumbered with when your kids leave home is just as unrealistic as the idea that you're going to waltz into a new career and a 20 years younger man at 60. As I recall from divorce stats, the most common scenario is a woman initiating divorce in midlife.

I think the issue is about the impact of financial independence. Your boss had clearly maintained hers through her life. Its about the difficulty of trying to basically start out from scratch in middle age, if you don't have financial independence. If you are trying to start a career you are 50plus competing against 20 something graduates.

There were women in their forties who back then looked professional or trendy in their dress. Just as there are women now who look frumpy in their forties. I was one except when on a night out, because I don't really care about clothes.
Shirley Valentine is about a woman in a shit marriage who is fed up of the drudgery and loneliness of each day in such a situation. There are still plenty of women in that situation. The only real difference is that divorce is much more common these days.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

It was a different world. When I started primary school (70s), I had the oldest mother in the class. Mum was 26 🙀

And NOW, if mumsnet is to be believed, the average age of a mother when her first child starts school, is about 50.