To think the Guardian is a joke re: JK Rowling?

[Firesidefox]

So, the Guardian was running a 'person of the year' poll, and I voted for JK Rowling for her bravery in standing up to the extremist wing of the trans lobby.

I went to have a look to see when the results were out, and they've deactivated the poll! According to Twitter, it's because JK Rowling was the out and out winner.

If this is the case, this is PATHETIC.

@Beamur

Apart from what is discussed above?

The brexit vote counted this time round but the biggest issue for Labour is Scotland.

Labour won 56 seats in Scotlabd in 1997 it won one in 2019, down from 7 in 2017.

I used to love reading the Guardian but in recent years their idealogical bias has become stronger, facts be damned in some cases. I write this comment as a bleeding-heart Labour-voting liberal.

On the trans issue they've really gone hardcore in their position and I've yet to read a an article that open-mindedly addresses the real concerns held by natal women. Owen Jones has been very strongly opiniated about this, to the point that he helped drive out the journalist Suzanne Moore because she voiced women's concerns on this.

This past year, Helen Joyce the brilliant Economist reporter released an incredibly well researched book on the trans movement and of course the Guardian has made sure to pretend it doesn't exist. I would love nothing more than to see Owen Jones interview Helen Joyce but he will never, ever dare to do so because he wouldn't be able to shout down her reasoned, intelligent responses and he knows it.

Anyway it’s your Brexit mess not mine because I did not vote for it and I won’t be hanging around the UK to find out how bad it’s going to be.

Well, no, it's not my Brexit mess because I never voted for it.

Actually, it sort of is my mess, because I'm in it, despite not voting for it, and I maintain that Brexit and the subsequent mess only happened because there was no healthy and free debate on immigration. And there wasn't one because of the accusations of bigotry being thrown at ordinary voters.

So, it's your mess, it's a mess that those pretending there as no discussion to be had caused, but I will be the one living in it, because as you kindly shared with you are buggering off.

Yet another 'JKR is a transphobe' comment by @CorrBlimeyGG but no evidence given to back it up. Same with the other thread. Sigh.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Actually, it sort of is my mess, because I'm in it, despite not voting for it, and I maintain that Brexit and the subsequent mess only happened because there was no healthy and free debate on immigration. And there wasn't one because of the accusations of bigotry being thrown at ordinary voters.

So, it's your mess, it's a mess that those pretending there as no discussion to be had caused, but I will be the one living in it, because as you kindly shared with you are buggering off.

it's a mess that those pretending there as no discussion to be had caused

It's a mess that those who voted to leave the EU caused!

The idea that there wasn't a debate on immigration is ludicrous.

Scores if newspaper headlines and debates on QT, the radio and many more. People keep saying they were called bigots but they weren't really, most of the time the response was rightly that immigration isn't having the impacts it is supposed to.

A lot of the time too the opinions were bigoted.

I do think the Irish border/GFA issue wasn't addressed much at all in the run up to the referendum.

My family is Irish-anglo and my mum voted for Brexit (only person in our family as it happens) but after the significance of Brexit on the Irish border became known she has deeply regretted her vote. She grew up to see friends and family directly impacted by the Troubles and she's horrified that she voted to potentially endanger the GFA.

I dont see labour as bleeding heart - more really hard of heart and quite scary.

They have totally lost sight of everything I was turned off the Guardian years and years ago - after reading it for about 20 years.
They are not truthful, they omit and lie and are hard and in humane.

Nasty paper. The fact they are attacking JK R just shows how the snake is eating is own tail.

The fact that you accuse them of attacking JKR when they've done nothing of the sort is ridiculous.

What do you base your opinion on Labour on?

I’ll look up that book by Helen Joyce

Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas Not sure if your comment about Labour being bleeding heart liberals was a response to my comment?

If so, sorry to be pedantic but I was describing myself as a bleeding heart Labour-voting person, not the Labour party itself (which I also confess to not feeling comfortable with due to the Corbyn years.)

@Berlinkreuzberg

Which mp is that *@whachatalkinaboutwillis* ?

That would be The Lady Nugee

MmeSosostris I really recommend you read it. It called "Trans" and it's a very well researched, sympathetic and reasonable look at the progression of the trans movement. It also doesn't shy away from the real world issues that are occurring.

It's been shocking to me to see how the author, Helen Joyce, who has had such a well respected career has essentially been blacklisted by so much of British media. Her crime was to publish a book that points out unwelcome issues with the rush to embrace trans idealogy. The worst part about her book from the perspective of pro-trans media, is that her points are essentially irrefutable because she's too well researched, intelligent and reasonable. So instead she's been ignored and treated as invisible. Despite this, her book has sold immensly well both here and in the USA.

The book was received in the Gaurdian, times, evening standard and more.

Hardly blacklisted.

chardonnay I agree. I always feel Brexit wouldn’t have happened had Blair et al hasn’t agreed to the unlimited immigration from Poland etc.

Yes there were huge benefits and much of it has been positive but the impact on certain communities and employees/lower end wage growth was dismissed.

There was no unlimited immigration.

Low end wages were hardly impacted and any impacted was utterly negated by faster rises in tax threshold and minimum wage.

People bleat on about communities but can never ever quantify it.

Most leave voting constituencies have extremely low immigration anyway.

I don’t agree john. The data was presented at all levels of income but there was a real impact at the bottom end

Immigration was unlimited within the EU. I don’t think it works between countries with different average salaries.

I think this is basically why we left. It’s sad really as with some sensible discussions we could have remained

@JohnHuffam1812

We are living in two different worlds, John.

And U.K., Sweden and Ireland were the countries with no cap. I had business in all 3 and can vouch for the impact it had (to my benefit in Sweden).

Housing in Ireland at that time was shocking

The bottom end impact was negligible, working out something like 1 p and hour in lower pay rates. This is using the BOE study.

Other studies including the government's own MAC one put it as lower.

Immigration was never unlimited, using that term is not only incorrect it has unpleasant connotations.

We left because people voted out despite these conversations being had. Cummings gs himself reckons the threat of Turkish migrants and the NHS 350m were the biggest impacts.

As said the conversations were had, sensible evidence pointed to, and shouted down by the leave campaign and its supporters.

@MmeSosostris

Yes it appears I live in the real world where as you live in some revisionist dimension.

“According to Twitter”

So total BS, then.

@ManicPixie

This was established by page 2. Thread is still going though.