WWYD heart attack and no ambulance?

[1wokeuplikethis]

This is what happened to our family today. My dad had a heart attack, I phoned 999 and I was put on hold. I’ve heard about this but never thought it actually happens. When I finally got through they said an ambulance would take 2hrs so I can wait or take him myself. Nearest hospital is 30mins away, so I needed my husband to drive so I could be there if dad went unconscious but seriously, WHAT DO YOU DO? I thought, the shop nearby has a defibrillator outside, should I take that? But I don’t know if you can take them. It was busy A roads the whole journey with speed cameras and every light was red- do you go through them? If dad had gone unconscious in the car, do you stop and pull him out on the wet road to do CPR? Carry on to hospital?

I felt so helpless. You always think an ambulance is round the corner but what if it isn’t and you’re just an average joe with no medical knowledge?

Please please tell me, what would you do in that circumstance? I was not prepared.

We all see (defibrillators) and think oh good, but why don’t we understand anything about them? Why don’t we have adverts on tv and our phones explaining how to use them?

First of all I'm so sorry about your terrifying experience and hope your dad's doing okay in the circumstances

On the defibrillators, while full instructions are on the boxes, it's worth remembering they're run by the British Heart Foundation. Being a charity they're often short of funds and maintenance issues mean the things often don't work, so while they're nice to see there's little point in relying on them

Speaking of funding, though, I had to smile about "Labour pouring money into the NHS and it vastly improving". Either folk are too young to have known or have short memories, but the whining about money was just as bad then (though admittedly not as bad as since it's been turned into a Covid-only service)

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

The solution is adequate funding not further cutting the service offered. Defunding ivf also further stigmatises infertility.

It's a bottomless pit, it will swallow all you throw at it and ask for more.

But where does it end? Where does the line in the sand get drawn as to what treatment is funded and what isn’t? As it stands in England, ivf is barely funded at all. I can’t imagine scrapping that will save the millions needed to fix the shit show that is the current nhs.

But where does it end? Where does the line in the sand get drawn as to what treatment is funded and what isn’t? As it stands in England, ivf is barely funded at all. I can’t imagine scrapping that will save the millions needed to fix the shit show that is the current nhs

Reform the whole thing.

So very sorry to read this, best wishes for your Dad's recovery.

Good for you making sure you know how to do CPR. My husband died from a cardiac arrest, the person that found him was just standing over him in my garden when I got home, he hadn't tried CPR.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

The solution is adequate funding not further cutting the service offered. Defunding ivf also further stigmatises infertility.

It's a bottomless pit, it will swallow all you throw at it and ask for more.

And yet none of it is reaching the staff.

Feeling for all affected here.

A number of things that I would mention:

1. Just because someone on Holby City or Casualty brings someone back from dead, doesn't mean that it's always possible. I have had two strangers die in front of me from cardiac arrest where nothing could be done. In both cases I felt guilty for weeks, despite there being no chance for them.
2. I remember a US city where traffic prevented emergency services from getting to people. The city looked at bigger roads, traffic-light control for ambulances etc but concluded that insisting upon high rates of First Aid training among workers gave patients the best chance of survival.
3. If the person you want to help is in a safe place with clear airways make them comfortable but don't move them unnecessarily. If you don't know how to accurately check for a pulse or there is a chance that the casualty is breathing for themself, please avoid heroics and seek help from someone who does know.

@Kinneddar

Well neither can I or the rest of us who are in the UK. It's not normally like this

Sadly it is. This is common now. The waiting time is frightening. I'm not at all surprised to hear of that waiting time.

Request the fire service

The Fire Service won't come out for a medical matter. They'll refer you straight back to ambulance

Yes they will, and no they won't.

They will also attend in place of the police if you need access to somewhere, like the poor OP on Xmas day who was waiting news on her ex. Granted, you would need to word that in a specific way, but they would attend.

I know because my husband has done all this in his role of a firefighter.

We all see (defibrillators) and think oh good, but why don’t we understand anything about them? Why don’t we have adverts on tv and our phones explaining how to use them

Defibrillators are easy to use. They do generally need to be unlocked with a code that ambulance control operators would give you on a 999 call. They would also talk you through using it and the defibrillator itself 'talks to you' giving instructions to use it. Also, they won't shock a patient who doesn't need to be shocked.

My dad died in 1995. Heart attack in Town Centre. Ambulance took 40 minutes.

www.sja.org.uk/courses/

Stopping offering IVF on the NHS is not the answer

Maybe not, but sooner or later it's almost certainly going to happen

With optical services, dentistry, chiropody and so on already effectively privatised, do people really think NHS IVF will go on for ever, especially when infertility isn't an acute illness (though the causes of it may be)?

I hope he is ok.

Rather than wait for an ambulance if a person can be moved then I would say move. I have seen people wait for ambulances for people for trivial things when they could easily take them. A heart attack is obviously much more serious but getting him to hospital seems to be the best option rather than wait around.

Sadly, covid, general misuse of calling 999 for an ambulance and lack of staff/services due to underfunding and illness etc means waiting times have risen. Until an individual has actual experience of 999 many don't really care.

@blameless yes I feel there should be more education around DNACPR as well. We see a lot of 80+ year olds who insist they want resuscitated and CPR carries out even after explaining there is very little chance it would work and even if it did there would be little quality of life

[quote Berlinkreuzberg]@ChardonnaysPetDragon tories have been in power most of the last century and this. Surely they have to take some responsibility for its woeful state ? Or is it all Blairs fault ?[/quote]
Blair trebled spending on the NHS but we have little to show for it. Lots of shiny new hospitals but not enough staff. Remember that there was a GP crisis in the 90s which Blair "cured" with his ruinously expensive and stupid new GP contract which gave them a pay rise for fewer hours - but it didn't work - we still have a GP crisis - all it did was fund GPs to work fewer hours!

@1wokeuplikethis

Thank you, it’s been such a shock. He had a heart attack last week and I knew he was staying with us so I brushed up on CPR but in my mind that was for if he had another and we were waiting 15-20mins for an ambulance. The operator didn’t stay on the line- she said wait or go, we were completely on our own. My husband drove and I tried to call ahead to a&e so they knew we were coming but nobody answered the whole journey. When we finally, agonisingly got outside I just fucking ran in and shouted help, my dad is having a heart attack, help please.

I don’t think I’ll ever get over that.

Dad is thankfully doing ok, but as a person who always likes to be prepared this absolutely threw me. I felt so abandoned.

How horrific for you all. It sounds like you did everything you possibly could and were a real hero in an appalling situation.

I hope your Dad makes a full recovery and I hope you’re alright after such a trauma. 💐💐💐

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Stopping offering IVF on the NHS is not the answer

Maybe not, but sooner or later it's almost certainly going to happen

With optical services, dentistry, chiropody and so on already effectively privatised, do people really think NHS IVF will go on for ever, especially when infertility isn't an acute illness (though the causes of it may be)?

You are quite right, it’s already a postcode lottery thus basically rendering private the only viable option for many, so it will happen but what I meant was it won’t solve anything. The money won’t find its way back to the nhs and be used to fund care in the community or buy more ambulances.

I agree Chardonnay the whole thing needs actual reform and not Tori reform which will be selling off and privatising whilst simultaneously offering doorstep claps for ‘heros’ and scapegoating.

@SetFreeTheKites

The problem is that even if you call and say someone is having a heart attack, they can't categorise it as 'heart attack' because they can't diagnose that over the phone. It's categorised as chest pain, which is a category 2 - along with a whole host of other symptoms and complaints, and a load more people calling who also have chest pain. There aren't enough ambulances to cover the number of calls coming in. It's shit, of course, and people who are genuinely having heart attacks shouldn't have to wait 2 hours for an ambulance, but this is unfortunately the way things are at the moment. I can't see it getting better any time soon.

I would have done the same thing in your situation, got Dad in the car and drove as quickly as I could - while still abiding by the laws of the road - to hospital. If he lost consciousness on the way then I'd have called back on 999 as the situation then is obviously more serious.

I'm fairly certain you can't access a defibrillator unless you're calling because somebody is in cardiac arrest, I don't think they'd give you the code to access the defib because you're driving somebody with chest pain to hospital.

Surely if the person had a heart attack just a week previously, they would be a priority for an ambulance now with further symptoms?

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Is this what it's like everywhere atm?

I know the favorite pastime here is to mock US healthcare. But our wait times average 4-9 minutes regardless of the type of call (stubbed toe, strokes, heart attacks, to picking up gran after a fall) for an ambulance.

I honestly can’t imagine counting ambulance wait times in hours.

In my case, I had a fall a while ago and needed the paramedics to get me up (I was unhurt but am disabled) I was advised I was looking at waiting up to three hours. In reality I waited about 30 mins as there was a crew just starting there shift in the next town. But they couldn’t tell me that, they had to tell me that I was a low priority and the worst case scenario.

Sadly, this is the state our country is in. A combination of issues.

Lack of public sector funding - from central government to all services.
Lack of staff, especially in social care (so bed blocking and ambulances waiting) caused by Brexit
Covid - staff are ill, staff are not at work

Reflect on your own voting, reflect on your wish for us all to ignore Covid and carry on. This is what happens.

That is horrific. It sound like you did all the right things. I’m glad your dad is doing ok.
Yet we are still all able to go out partying on NYE! Write to your MP!!!

That’s awful!
We are 20 minutes from nearest A&E. I would have took him via car. Grabbed defib from nearest shop and pull over if he arrested.
Diabolical service. 2 hrs for a genuine life or death emergency?

@blameless

1) Just because someone on Holby City or Casualty brings someone back from dead, doesn't mean that it's always possible. I have had two strangers die in front of me from cardiac arrest where nothing could be done. In both cases I felt guilty for weeks, despite there being no chance for them.

Yes, there needs to be better education on this, as many get their 'medical knowledge' from the media. I watch Grey's Anatomy, and don't think there's a single leading character who hasn't had resuscitation, with no after effects. It's not at all realistic. Community CPR is very rarely successful.

OP I hope you are ok ?
I think the 1st time you realise that the Services you believed were out there for support actually aren't its a real shock. My story isn't about the ambulance but about immediate care. My (now ex)H had what I believe was a heart attack. Paramedics came quickly, assessed as that too & took him to A&E by ambulance. (I stayed at home with 2 small kids as 3am & no one to take them). I was shocked when 90 mins later he arrived home in a taxi. He'd been put on a bed in a corridor, no further assessment, no bloods done, told 'he looked ok now' & sent home. (6 yrs ago, rural Scottish hospital with very poor record). The NHS has been in a declining state for a long time, and it's now in its terminal phase. I hope your Dad recovers well.

What I meant was that (privatising IVF) won’t solve anything. The money won’t find its way back to the nhs and be used to fund care in the community or buy more ambulances

Quite right, but then even giving the entirety of the UK's GDp to the NHS probably wouldn't solve anything either

Because of the way it's structured, instead of finding its way to the front line extra money invariably goes on more managers to decide how it'll be spent, more reports on issues already known, more "consultations" and so on
It might be nice to think they'd say "Okay, we've known for years that you need more nurses/beds/equipment/whatever so here's the cash", but it simply doesn't work like that

My DM (87) had a fall recently and we were told 13 hours wait for an ambulance, luckily we have medics in the family who came, got her up from the floor and checked her over. We have bought all necessary equipment (including walking aids, a stairlift and bathlift) and rehabbed her back to some level of being able to cope.
Social services offerred her 6 weeks of free care to prevent admission which she accepted, so it was a shock to be sent a bill for several thousand pounds for the first 4 weeks.
Her social worker initially denied the offer of free care but after telling her that her phone call had been witnessed by a family member who is also a SW in another area she backed down and suddenly remembered that she had indeed offerred us free care.
Awful experience.
How people, who have no knowledge of how these things work, cope, is beyond me.
I can't see the health/social care budget being increased any yikes soon, so I predict that sadly cases like these will just rise.